>> HELLO, EVERYONE, AND WELCOME TO "AMANPOUR AND COMPANY. "

HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.

>> I DON'T KNOW WHAT HE DID, BUT HE DIDN'T DESERVE TO BE EXECUTED IN THE STREET.

>> DONALD TRUMP'S IMMIGRATION CRACK DOWN CLAIMS ANOTHER LIFE, AS I. C. E. AGENTS FATALLY SHOOT A 26-YEAR-OLD FATHER IN MAINE DESPITE HIS REPORTEDLY HAVING LEGAL RIGHTS TO WORK IN THE U. S. MAINE CONGRESSWOMAN CHELLIE PINGREE JOINS ME.

> >> THEN, A LOOK AT TRUMP'S LATEST ATTEMPT TO CONTROL AMERICA'S ELECTIONS.

I ASK RACHEL GOODMAN, SPECIAL COUNSEL AT PROTECT DEMOCRACY, ABOUT THE PRESIDENT'S RENEWED TARGETING OF ELECTION OFFICIALS AHEAD OF THE MID-TERMS.

> >> PLUS, A SURGE OF ANTI- SEMITIC ATTACKS IN THE U. K. IS SPREADING FEAR THROUGH BRITAIN'S JEWISH COMMUNITY.

A REPORT ON HOW LONDON'S POLICE ARE TACKLING THE VIOLENCE.

> >> ALSO AHEAD -- >> WE TALK A LOT ABOUT REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS, BUT, AS YOU SAY, WITHIN THOSE COALITIONS, THERE'S A LOT OF DIVERSITY AND NUANCE.

>> IS AMERICA AS DIVIDED AS WE THINK?

JOCELYN KILEY FROM THE PEW RESEARCH CENTER TALKS TO HARI SREENIVASAN ABOUT THE COMPLEX CENTER GROUND IN THE U. S. AND WHY BINARY CATEGORIES LIKE REPUBLICAN AND DEMOCRAT CAN OFTEN BE MISLEADING.

> >> "AMANPOUR AND COMPANY" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY --THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT.

JIM ATTWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS.

CANDACE KING WEIR.

THE SYLVIA A. AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTI-SEMITISM.

THE STRAUS FAMILY FOUNDATION.

THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND.

CHARLES ROSENBLUM.

MONIQUE SCHOEN WARSHAW.

KOO AND PATRICIA YUEN, COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES.

BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG.

AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

> >> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE.

I'M BIANNA GOLODRYGA IN NEW YORK SITTING IN FOR CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR.

WE BEGIN WITH THE 26-YEAR-OLD HUSBAND AND FATHER REPORTEDLY POSSESSING A SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER AND THE LEGAL RIGHT TO WORK IN THE UNITED STATES KILLED BY I. C. E. JOAN SEBASTIAN GUERRERO WAS FATALLY SHOT BY FEDERAL IMMIGRATION AGENTS ON THE STREETS IN MAINE ON MONDAY.

WITNESSES SAY HIS 3-YEAR-OLD DAUGHTER WAS THERE AT THE SCENE AS WELL.

IT'S UNDERSTOOD THAT GUERRERO WAS NOT EVEN THE TARGET OF THE IMMIGRATION RAID.

THE DEPARTMENT FOR HOMELAND SECURITY SAYS AN I. C. E. OFFICER OPENED FIRE FEARING FOR PUBLIC SAFETY AFTER APPROACHING GUERRERO'S CAR.

THEY HAVEN'T PROVIDED DETAILS OF THE SUPPOSED THREAT.

GUERRERO IS THE FOURTH PERSON TO HAVE BEEN FATALLY SHOT BY I. C. E. AGENTS THIS YEAR ALONE INCLUDING A MEXICAN MAN KILLED DURING A TRAFFIC STOP JUST LAST WEEK IN TEXAS.

SEVEN OTHER PEOPLE HAVE ALSO BEEN SHOT, THOUGH NOT FATALLY, AS THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION PRESSES AHEAD WITH ITS IMMIGRATION CRACKDOWN.

THE SURGE IN VIOLENCE IS, AGAIN, IGNITING ANGER AT THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION'S AGGRESSIVE IMMIGRATION AGENDA AND THE APPARENT LACK OF ACCOUNTABILITY FOR I. C. E. AGENTS.

I WANT TO BRING IN MAINE CONGRESSWOMAN CHELLIE PINGREE WITH MORE ON THIS.

CONGRESSWOMAN, WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

I DO WANT TO NOTE THAT "THE NEW YORK TIMES" IS REPORTING THAT THE WHITE HOUSE IS ORDERING I. C. E. TO CEASE MOST VEHICLE STOPS AFTER THIS LATEST KILLING.

SO YOUR REACTION TO THAT NEWS.

I WOULD IMAGINE THAT IT IS WELCOME NEWS.

>> ABSOLUTELY, AS WELL THEY SHOULD.

THEY SHOULD STOP THEIR ACTIVITIES.

PEOPLE ARE SO ANGRY THAT WE HAVE A SIGNIFICANT I. C. E. PRESENCE IN OUR STATE.

WE HAVE HAD IT FOR MONTHS, AND THIS VERY IDEA THAT AN INDIVIDUAL COULD LEAVE HIS HOME AT 7:00 TO GO TO WORK AND NOT VERY FAR AWAY FROM HIS HOUSE HE'S SHOT, HE'LL NEVER SEE HIS 3-YEAR- OLD DAUGHTER AGAIN.

>> SO LET'S JUST TALK ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED OVER THE LAST 24 HOURS, A LITTLE MORE THAN 24 HOURS.

MONDAY MORNING MR.

GUERRERO WAS ON HIS WAY TO WORK, AS WE HAD NOTED IN THE INTRODUCTION THERE.

HE WAS SHOT AT BY I. C. E. AGENTS, AND APPARENTLY WITH HIS 3-YEAR-OLD DAUGHTER STILL WEARING HER PAJAMAS AND HIS PARTNER, WHO HAD WITNESSED THE SHOOTING.

WERE THEY IN THE CAR WITH HIM, OR WERE THEY OUTSIDE?

BECAUSE I UNDERSTAND THAT HE WAS VERY NEAR THEIR HOME.

>> YEAH, AS I UNDERSTAND HE HAD JUST PULLED OUT OF THE DRIVEWAY.

I DON'T THINK THAT THEY WERE IN THE CAR.

I THINK THAT HE WAS GOING TO WORK.

AND I THINK SHORTLY AFTER THE SHOOTING, THEY CAME OUT.

HIS WIFE WAS CLEARLY THERE.

THE 3-YEAR-OLD DAUGHTER IN THE BLUEE PAJAMAS WITH HER PINK BACKPACK WITNESSED THE WHOLE THING.

AS DID MANY OF THE NEIGHBORS, OTHERS WHO SAW EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED.

WE'VE GOTTEN SO LITTLE INFORMATION FROM I. C. E. EVEN THOUGH EVERYONE IN THE STATE AND THE CONGRESSIONAL DELEGATION HAS BEEN REQUESTING THIS.

AS YOU MENTIONED EARLIER, THEY'VE GIVEN VERY LITTLE ARGUMENT FOR EXACTLY WHAT THEY DID.

HE WAS DRIVING AWAY, BY THEIR ACCOUNT, AND THEY SAID THEY DID THIS FOR PUBLIC SAFETY REASONS.

AS WE KNOW THERE ARE A LOT OF CONSTRAINTS ON NORMAL LAW ENFORCEMENT ABOUT SHOOTING SOMEONE IN A CAR.

THESE FOUR SHOTS WERE FIRED THROUGH THE WINDSHIELD, AND CLEARLY THIS PERSON DIED VERY QUICKLY.

>> AND THAT'S BEEN CONFIRMED THAT THE SHOTS WERE FIRED, I WOULD IMAGINE, HEAD ON THROUGH THE WINDSHIELD?

>> YOU CAN SEE IT IN THE PICTURES, AND I VISITED THE CRIME SCENE MYSELF.

>> YEAH.

SO I WANT TO PLAY SOUND FROM ANOTHER WITNESS.

YOU SAID THERE WERE NUMEROUS WITNESSES THERE AT THE TIME, AND THIS IS WHAT HE SAYS HE SAW AT THAT MOMENT.

>> I. C. E. AGENT GOT OUT, TRIED TO OPEN THE DOOR AND HAD A DIFFICULT TIME BUT EVENTUALLY OPENED IT AND PULLED THE GUY OUT.

HIS FACE WAS BLOODY.

HIS HEAD WAS BLOODY, AND I CLEARLY HEARD THE VICTIM SAY I TRIED TO STOP.

CLEARLY HEARD HIM SAY THAT.

>> SO YOU HAVE A WITNESS SAYING THAT HE HEARD MR.

GUERRERO SAY THAT HE TRIED TO STOP.

THERE ARE REPORTS, AS YOU NOTED, YOU SAW FIRST-HAND FOUR BULLET SHOTS THROUGH THE WINDSHIELD OF THAT CAR.

WE KNOW THAT MOST POLICE DEPARTMENTS TRAIN THEIR OFFICERS NOT TO DO EXACTLY THAT.

MANY DEPARTMENTS OUTRIGHT PROHIBIT IT AS WELL.

IS THERE ANY VERSION HERE OF WHAT TRANSPIRED FROM DHS' COMMENTS AND STATEMENTS THAT YOU THINK WOULD ALLOW FOR THAT TYPE OF RESPONSE?

>> ABSOLUTELY NOT.

AND I THINK THAT'S WHY I. C. E. HAS BEEN SO UNFORTHCOMING.

IT TOOK THEM 12 HOURS TO RELEASE THE STATEMENT THAT YOU'VE SEEN.

WE'VE GOTTEN VERY LITTLE FURTHER INFORMATION TODAY, AND WE HAVE ASKED TO MAKE SURE THAT OUR STATE, ATTORNEY GENERAL, AND ALL LOCAL LAW ENFORCEMENT ARE INCLUDED IN THE EVIDENCE, THE WITNESS STATEMENTS, AND EVERYTHING ELSE.

BECAUSE WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THIS IS A THOROUGH INVESTIGATION.

I'M SURE SOME OF THE REASONS BEHIND THIS IN THIS BOTCHED SHOOTING ARE EXACTLY WHY THEY'VE DECIDED TO NO LONGER ALLOW FOR TRAFFIC STOPS.

YOU KNOW, IT'S HARD FOR THEM TO BREAK INTO HOMES BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO HAVE A WARRANT.

THIS WAS SOMETHING THEY WERE ABLE TO DO WITHOUT A WARRANT, BUT THEY SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO DO THIS.

IN THIS CASE WHERE IT'S VERY LIKELY THE WRONG PERSON, AND THERE'S NO JUSTIFICATION FOR THIS --FOR A MAN LOSING HIS LIFE.

>> WELL, DHS SECRETARY MARK MULLEN TOLD SENATOR KING THAT INITIALLY MR.

GUERRERO WAS THE TARGET OF THE WARRANT, THEN CALLED HIM BACK HOURS LATER AND SAID HE WAS NOT THE PERSON THAT THEY WERE LOOKING FOR.

SO NOW YOU HAVE A 26-YEAR-OLD FATHER WHO WAS ON HIS WAY TO WORK KILLED, EYEWITNESSED BY HIS 3-YEAR- OLD DAUGHTER AND HIS PARTNER.

WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE HAPPEN NOW?

>> WELL, SOME OF THE THINGS THAT WE'VE BEEN CALLING FOR.

THERE'S ABSOLUTELY TOO MUCH FUNDING FOR I. C. E. WE'VE TRIED TO PUT MORE CONSTRAINTS ON THEM, EVEN THOUGH CONGRESS REQUIRED BODY CAMERAS.

THESE OFFICERS WERE NOT WEARING BODY CAMERAS, SO WE DON'T NECESSARILY HAVE FIRST- HAND FOOTAGE OF IT.

WE ALSO HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT MORE STRICT PROCEDURES THERE.

THE OTHER BIG QUESTION FOR US IS WHY ARE YOU IN OUR STATE?

WE'RE ONE OF THE LOWEST CRIME RATES STATES IN THE NATION.

THERE IS NOT A LOT OF CRIMINAL ACTIVITY IN THE SMALL COMMUNITY OF BIDDEFORD, MAINE.

THERE'S A LONG TRADITION OF IMMIGRANTS THERE.

SO MANY PEOPLE COME THROUGH MY OFFICE ALL THE TIME.

I REPRESENT THE CITY OF PORTLAND.

WE HAVE A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO WORK ON IMMIGRATION.

THEY ARE FEARFUL TO GO OUT OF THEIR HOMES, TO GO TO WORK BECAUSE OF THE TARGETING BY I. C. E. OFFICERS.

SOME OF THEM ARE ACTIVELY SEARCHING FOR THEIR OWN FAMILY MEMBERS WHO HAVE BEEN DETAINED, YOU KNOW, TAKEN TO PLACES ALL OVER THIS COUNTRY.

I MYSELF WAS JUST DOWN TO DILLY A COUPLE OF MONTHS AGO TO RETRIEVE A 19-YEAR-OLD GIRL WHO HAD BEEN DETAINED DOWN THERE.

IT'S A COMPLETELY OUT OF CONTROL AGENCY.

WE ALSO UNDERSTAND THEY OPERATE ON SOME KIND OF QUOTA, AND THAT'S WHY THEY'RE CONSTANTLY PUSHING ON THESE DETENTIONS AND PICKUPS WITH VERY LITTLE INFORMATION BEHIND IT.

>> JUST TO PICK UP ON THAT, BIDDEFORD IS A CITY OF 22,000, ONE OF THE LOWEST CRIME STATES IN THE COUNTRY, WE SHOULD NOTE.

AND YOUR CONSTITUENTS HAVE REPORTED SEEING I. C. E. AGENTS DAILY, WEEKLY GOING BACK TO JANUARY.

AND THIS WAS AN OPERATION AT THE TIME THAT TOOK A LOT OF HEAT FOR THE NAME THAT IT CARRIED, AND IT WAS OPERATATION CATCH OF THE DAY.

HAVE YOU EVER BEEN ABLE TO RECEIVE A CONCRETE ANSWER AS TO WHY THERE WAS SUCH A SIGNIFICANT AND REGULAR I. C. E. PRESENCE IN YOUR STATE --IN YOUR CITY?

>> ABSOLUTELY NOT.

WE BELIEVE WHEN THEY WERE DOING AS YOU SAID THE DESPICABLY NAMED CATCH OF THE DAY, THEY WERE TRYING TO RETALIATE AGAINST MAINE, WHICH PRESIDENT TRUMP OFTEN DOES.

HE PICKS A STATE HE DOESN'T LIKE THEIR POLITICS.

HE SENDS IN I. C. E. OFFICERS OR SOMETHING ELSE.

THEY LEFT OUR STATE AFTER ABOUT A WEEK.

BUT THE FACT WAS EVEN THOUGH MANY PEOPLE THOUGHT WE COULD TAKE A DEEP BREATH, WE HAVE SEEN CONSISTENT PRESENCE OF I. C. E. WE HAVE SEEN PEOPLE PICKED UP WITH VERY FLIMSY EXCUSES.

THE KINDS OF THINGS THAT WOULD NORMALLY ALLOW YOU TO STAY IN THE UNITED STATES.

FOR INSTANCE PEOPLE WERE OVERSTAYING A VISA BUT THEY'RE ACTUALLY WAITING FOR THEIR ASYLUM CLAIM TO BE DECIDED.

SO LEGITIMATE REASONS TO STAY IN OUR STATE.

THEY'RE ALMOST ALL RETURNED AS SOON AS WE CAN FIND OUT WHERE THEY ARE.

BUT WE ARE JUST ONE OF THE MANY TARGETED STATES.

I THINK THIS I. C. E. ACTIVITY IS GOING ON EVERYWHERE.

PEOPLE JUST DON'T ALWAYS KNOW HOW TO DEAL WITH IT OR WHERE IT'S HAPPENING.

>> DHS SAID ALT THE TIME MR.

GUERRERO WHO WAS DRIVING THE CAR ATTEMPTED TO FLEE THE SCENE, AND AN OFFICER FEARING FOR PUBLIC SAFETY THEN DISCHARGED HIS WEAPON.

PUBLIC SAFETY, NOT HIS OWN SAFETY.

WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THAT LANGUAGE ESPECIALLY COMING AFTER A VERY SIMILAR INCIDENT, AS YOU KNOW, OCCURRED JUST LAST WEEK IN HOUSTON, TEXAS.

>> YEAH, ABSOLUTELY.

I MEAN, THERE'S NO JUSTIFICATION FOR THAT.

AND IN ANY OTHER LAW ENFORCEMENT, OFFICERS ARE TRAINED IF THEY'RE FEAR FRG THEIR OWN SAFETY IT'S ONE THING.

BUT TO JUST GO AFTER AND SHOOT SOMEBODY BECAUSE OF A, YOU KNOW, AMORPHOUS CLAIM OF PUBLIC SAFETY, THERE'S NO JUSTIFICATION FOR THIS.

THERE'S NO CONFIRMATION THAT THE INDIVIDUAL HAD A WEAPON IN THE CAR OR WAS ABOUT TO BRANDISH A GUN, SO THERE'S NO EXCUSE FOR THIS.

AND WE BELIEVE THIS IS WHAT THEY DO ALL THE TIME IS KIND OF MAKE UP THE EXCUSES THAT MANY OF THE I. C. E. OFFICERS DON'T RECEIVE THE SAME LEVEL OF TRAINING THAT OUR LOCAL POLICE OR STATE POLICE DO.

AND THEY'RE OPERATING UNDER QUOTAS, SO THEY'RE RUSHING TO FIND MORE PEOPLE.

>> WELL, WE KNOW THEY'RE WELL-FUNDED.

YOU'VE ALREADY SAID THAT THERE HAS BEEN A LOT OF FRUSTRATION WITH THE FACT THERE ARE NO BODY CAMERAS ALTHOUGH I. C. E. AND DHS DID SAY THAT THEY WOULD, IN FACT, FOLLOW-UP ON PROVIDING THESE AGENTS WITH BODY CAMERAS.

THAT WAS NOT THE CASE HERE.

IT'S NOT A FUNDING ISSUE.

DO YOU THINK IT'S A TRAINING ISSUE, IT'S A POLICY ISSUE?

IS THIS SOMETHING THAT CONGRESS CAN ADDRESS?

>> WELL, I MEAN, IT'S A LITTLE BIT OUT THERE BUT I'M ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE WHO THINK WE SHOULD ABOLISH I. C. E. YOU KNOW, WE CREATED THIS AGENCY AFTER 9/11, PUT TOGETHER A LOT OF OTHER AGENCIES.

THEY'RE POORLY RUN, SEEM TO HAVE A LOT OF EXCESSIVE FUNDS.

THE PRESIDENT PROMISED US HE WAS ONLY GOING TO LOOK FOR MURDERERS AND RAPISTS, BUT THEY SPENT SO MUCH IN OUR STATE AND SO MANY OTHER STATES AROUND THE COUNTRY DETAINING PEOPLE, RUNNING PRIVATE PRISONS, OFTEN POORLY RUN.

I DON'T SEE THE PURPOSE OF HAVING THEM THERE, AND I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY TAXPAYER DOLLARS ARE BEING SPENT IN THIS WAY.

>> YESTERDAY DHS OFFICE OF SECRETARY MARK MULLEN PUT OUT A PRESS STATEMENT HEADLINES WORST OF THE WORST, I. C. E. ARRESTS, MURDERERS, PEDOPHILES, I. C. E. AGENT ASSAILANTS, AND DRUG TRAFFICKERS.

HOW DO YOU SQUARE THAT NOW WITH OUR STANCE THAT I. C. E. SHOULD BE ABOLISHED?

HOW DO YOUR CONSTITUENTS --HOW DO THEY NAVIGATE THAT HEADLINE FROM YOUR POSITION?

>> LOOK, WE HAVE A LOT OF OTHER AGENCIES THAT COULD BE TASKED WITH THIS DOING THIS, OR WE COULD DRAMATICALLY SHRINK THIS AGENCY, IF THAT'S ACTUALLY WHAT THEY WERE DOING.

BUT WE'VE SEEN VERY LITTLE OF THEIR PRESENCE IN MAINE DEVOTED TO ACTIONS LIKE THAT.

MOSTLY WE SEE PEOPLE WHO ARE LEGALLY IN OUR STATE WHO ARE OUR COWORKERS, OUR FRIENDS, OUR NEIGHBORS WHO ARE BEING DETAINED OFTEN FOR MONTHS AT A TIME.

SOMETIMES NOT RETURNED AT ALL TO OUR STATE.

FAMILIES ARE BROKEN UP, COMMUNITIES ARE DEVASTATED OVER THIS, AND OUR CITIZENS ARE REALLY, REALLY ANGRY.

>> SO LET'S TALK ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS NEXT --ACCOUNTABILITY, THE INVESTIGATION, THE FBI AND DHS' OWN INSPECTOR GENERAL WILL NOW CONTROL THIS INVESTIGATION, NOT MAINE AUTHORITIES.

THIS IS DESPITE THE FACT THE STATE A. G. , THE GOVERNOR HAVE OPENED THEIR OWN INQUIRIES.

REPUBLICAN SENATOR COLLINS IS CALLING FOR A FULL AND IMPARTIAL INVESTIGATION, SO SHOULD WE NOTE THE COLUMBIAN EMBASSY AS WELL, THIS BECAUSE THIS MAN WAS A COLUMBIAN NATIONAL, I BELIEVE.

BUT WE SAW THE TURMOIL IN MINNEAPOLIS WHEN LOCAL OFFICIALS SAID THAT INFORMATION WAS WITHHELD FROM THEM AT THE TIME.

CAN YOU TRUST DHS TO CONDUCT A FULSOME AND FULLY TRANSPARENT INVESTIGATION NOW?

>> I ABSOLUTELY DO NOT.

AND I'VE HEARD SENATOR KING SAY SIMILAR THINGS.

I KNOW THAT IN MY STATE GIVEN WHAT'S HAPPENED TO US, GIVEN WHAT WE SAW IN MINNESOTA, SOME OF THAT EVIDENCE WAS JUST RECENTLY RELEASED TO LAW ENFORCEMENT IN MINNESOTA.

WE DON'T WANT TO HAVE TO WAIT THAT LONG.

OUR ATTORNEY GENERAL HAS ALREADY SAID HE WANTS TO DO A FULL INVESTIGATION.

THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO REASON WHY THEY CAN'T COOPERATE FULLY WITH OUR STATE AND LOCAL AUTHORITIES AND DO A JOINT INVESTIGATION.

WHAT WE SAW IN MINNESOTA WAS COVER-UPS.

WE SAW THEM ELIMINATE EVIDENCE AND WITH HOLD INFORMATION, WITNESS STATEMENTS, BODY CAM INFORMATION, OR OTHER VIDEO INFORMATION.

WE SHOULD HAVE EVIDENCE OF ALL OF THAT.

WE SHOULD HAVE ACCESS TO ALL OF THAT, AND WE SHOULD DO PARALLEL INVESTIGATIONS.

THERE'S NO JUSTIFICATION FOR NOT DOING THAT.

>> CONGRESSWOMAN, MAINE HAS SPENT THE LAST TWO WEEKS IN THE HEADLINES NATIONALLY FOR ALL THE WRONG REASONS --THE COLLAPSE, THE IMPLOSION, THE SCANDAL OF GRAHAM PLATNER'S SENATE CAMPAIGN, NOW A FATAL I. C. E. SHOOTING IN YOUR OWN CITY.

YOUR CONSTITUENTS ARE HAVING TO REEL WITH THIS.

MANY OF THEM WITNESSED IT THEMSELVES.

WHAT IS THIS MOMENT DOING RIGHT NOW TO MAINERS AND THEIR TRUST WITH THEIR ELECTED OFFICIALS, WITH FEDERAL LAW ENFORCEMENT?

>> OH, THEY'RE EXTREMELY ANGRY.

WE'RE HAVING A RECORD HEAT WAVE DAY TO DAY, AND I KNOW PEOPLE ARE OUT IN THE STREETS AND THEY'RE VERY ANGRY.

AND AS YOU SAID, WE'RE JUST IN THE THROES OF CONDUCTING ANOTHER MINI SENATE PRIMARY, AND WE'LL FIND A NEW CANDIDATE FOR THE BALLOT.

I KNOW THIS WILL BE A VERY HIGH LEVEL ISSUE FOR ALL THESE CANDIDATES.

PEOPLE WILL WANT TO KNOW WHAT WILL YOU DO DIFFERENTLY?

SO WE CAN PUSH BACK ON THE REPUBLICANS WHO ALLOWED FOR THIS LEVEL OF FUNDING, WHO CONFIRMED THE CURRENT HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY, AND ARE GOING ALONG WITH SO MANY OF THESE THINGS.

SO THIS WILL BE A VERY HOT TOPIC IN THIS ELECTION CYCLE.

>> I KNOW YOU HAD CALLED TO GRAHAM PLATNER TO STEP DOWN PRIOR TO WHEN HE FINALLY DID.

YOU ARE RUNNING FOR RE-ELECTION.

YOU ARE LIKELY TO STAND TO REPLACE PLATNER AS A SENATE NOMINEE.

THAT WAS YOUR --THAT WAS YOUR POSITION EARLIER.

DOES WHAT'S TRANSPIRED OVER THE LAST 24 HOURS CHANGE ANY OF THAT FOR YOU?

>> WE HAVE A GOOD FIELD OF CANDIDATES IN THAT RACE, AND I HAVE AN IMPORTANT POSITION TO KEEP FILLING IN THE HOUSE, SO I'M RUNNING FOR RE-ELECTION IN MY HOUSE POSITION.

I SERVE ON THE APPROPRIATIONS COMMITTEE, AND ONE OF THE BIGGEST FIGHTS WE NEED TO HAVE WITH THIS PRESIDENT IS TO TAKE BACK AND MOVE AROUND THE FUNDS THAT HE HAS MISAPPROPRIATED, THE EXCESSIVE AMOUNT OF MONEY THAT THEY'VE GIVEN TO HOMELAND SECURITY, AND SO MANY OTHER AGENCIES THAT THEY'VE UNDERFUNDED.

WE HAVE OUR WORK TO DO.

WE WILL GET A GOOD CANDIDATE FOR THE SENATE, AND MAINE WILL LEAD THE FIELD IN MAKING SURE DEMOCRATS GET ELECTED.

>> CONGRESSMAN CHELLIE PINGREE, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THE TIME.

WE APPRECIATE IT.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

> >> WELL, NOW WE TURN TO THE LATEST ATTEMPT BY PRESIDENT TRUMP TO TIGHTEN HIS GRIP ON U. S. ELECTIONS.

IN A MOVE CRITICS ARE CALLING A POWER GRAB, PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS FIRED THE LAST REMAINING MEMBERS OF THE ELECTION ASSISTANCE COMMISSION, A BIPARTISAN FEDERAL AGENCY THAT HELPS STATE AND LOCAL OFFICIALS RUN ELECTIONS AND CERTIFY VOTING EQUIPMENT.

IT'S PART OF A MUCH BROADER CAMPAIGN BY THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION THAT INCLUDES ATTEMPTS TO RESTRICT VOTER REGISTRATION AND LIMIT MAIL- IN BALLOTS.

ALL HAPPENING JUST MONTHS BEFORE THE NOVEMBER MID- TERM ELECTIONS.

BUT PRESIDENT TRUMP IS SEEMINGLY STILL FOCUSED ON 2020, THE ELECTION HE BASELESSLY CLAIMS THAT HE WON.

>> I'VE BEEN RIGHT ABOUT EVERYTHING, AND I HAVE BEEN FOR A LONG TIME.

THAT'S HOW I GOT TO BE PRESIDENT THREE TIMES.

IT'S HOW I WON THREE ELECTIONS.

I DID VERY WELL IN THE SECOND ONE, WON IT.

IT'S A RIGGED ELECTION, BUT I'VE BEEN RIGHT.

>> THAT WAS THE PRESIDENT AT LAST WEEK'S NATO SUMMIT IN TURKIYE.

FOR NOW I WANT TO BRING IN RACHEL GOODMAN, SPECIAL COUNSEL AND PROGRAM LEAD AT PROTECT DEM OSRAESH WHERE A NONPARTISAN NON- PROFIT GROUP DEDICATED TO DEFEATING THE AUTHORITARIAN THREAT.

RACHEL, WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

THERE WE HEARD THE PRESIDENT ONCE AGAIN REITERATE THOSE BASELESS CLAIMS THAT HE WON THE 2020 ELECTION.

NOW WE LEARN THAT HE'S GOING TO BE ADDRESSING THE NATION THURSDAY NIGHT.

THE WHITE HOUSE SAYS THE PRESIDENT WILL PRESENT NEWLY DECLASSIFIED INTELLIGENCE ABOUT THE 2020 ELECTION AND VOTING MACHINE VULNERABILITIES.

THIS COMES AFTER HIS OWN ATTORNEY GENERAL AT THE TIME, HIS OWN FBI DIRECTOR, OBVIOUSLY MANY COURTS AND AUDITS FOUND NO SUCH FRAUD.

WHAT DO YOU EXPECT TO HEAR FROM THE PRESIDENT THURSDAY?

>> I THINK WE CAN EXPECT THE PRESIDENT TO REPEAT THE LIE THAT THE 2020 ELECTION WAS STOLEN FROM HIM AND MARRED BY FRAUD OF VARIOUS KINDS.

OF COURSE, WE KNOW THAT'S A LIE BECAUSE YEARS OF AUDITS AND RIYADHTS AND MORE THAN 60 LAWSUITS HAVE BEEN FULLY LITIGATED AND DEMONSTRATED IT TO BE BASELESS.

NATIONAL SECURITY OFFICIALS AND ELECTION OFFICIALS AT THE TIME UNIFORMLY SAID IT WAS THE MOST SECURE ELECTION EVER, BUT THE PRESIDENT'S ATTEMPT TO INTERFERE IN THE 2026 ELECTION AND TO BEND IT TO HIS WILL DEPENDS ON HIS ABILITY TO DECEIVE AMERICANS ABOUT THE INTEGRITY OF AMERICAN ELECTIONS, AND THAT'S WHY WE CONTINUE TO SEE HIM REPEATING THESE LIES ABOUT 2020.

>> YEAH, I WAS GOING TO ASK YOU WHAT DO YOU THINK THE PURPOSE IS OF RELITIGATING 2020 JUST FOUR MONTHS BEFORE THE MID- TERM ELECTIONS?

BECAUSE IF HE SEES EVIDENCE OF FRAUD TODAY, WHY NOT JUST MAKE A CASE FOR THAT NOW?

WHY RELITIGATE SOMETHING THAT, AS WE NOTED, SO MANY MEMBERS OF HIS OWN CABINET, OF HIS OWN ADMINISTRATION, JUDGES ACROSS THE BOARD ALL SAID THAT THERE WAS NO EVIDENCE OF?

>> THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT LED BY THE WHITE HOUSE HAS A STRATEGY IN 2026 OF SEEKING TO USE ALL THE TOOLS IN ITS TOOL KIT TO INTERFERE WITH THE ELECTIONS.

SO IT IS FIRST ATTEMPTING TO LAY THE GROUNDWORK FOR THAT INTERFERENCE BY DECEIVING THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ABOUT THE INTEGRITY OF THEIR ELECTIONS, WHICH, OF COURSE, ARE SAFE AND SECURE AND TRUSTWORTHY.

AFTER THAT DECEIT, IT ATTEMPTS TO --IT WILL ATTEMPT TO DISRUPT THE ELECTIONS BY INTERFERING IN THE MECHANICS OF ELECTION PROCESSES, AND THEN IT WILL ATTEMPT TO DENY THE RESULTS OF THOSE ELECTIONS INASMUCH AS ITS PREFERRED CANDIDATES ARE NOT THE WINNERS.

AND THIS IS REALLY THE ONLY STRATEGY AVAILABLE TO AN AUTOCRAT IN A SYSTEM THAT STILL HAS ELECTIONS.

HE NEEDS TO UNDERMINE THE TRUST AND CONFIDENCE OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE IN THEIR ELECTION SYSTEM IN ORDER TO SEEK TO CONSOLIDATE AND RETAIN POWER.

HE'S WILDLY UNPOPULAR, OF COURSE, RIGHT NOW, AND THAT'S WHY THIS IS THE ONLY STRATEGY AVAILABLE.

>> SO YOU DESCRIBE HIM AS AN AUTOCRAT OR POTENTIALLY WANTING TO ACT LIKE AN AUTOCRAT.

THE RESPONSE TO THAT IS THAT --AND SPECIFICALLY AS IT RELATES TO THE FIRING OF THOSE THREE MEMBERS OF THE ELECTION ASSISTANCE COMMISSION, TWO OF THEM WE SHOULD NOTE WERE FIRED BY E-MAIL.

THEY'RE DEMOCRATS.

ONE REPUBLICAN WAS ASKED TO RESIGN.

THE WHITE HOUSE ARGUES THIS WAS THE PRESIDENT JUST EXERCISING REMOVAL POWER THAT THE SUPREME COURT, A CHECK ON THE PRESIDENT, ALLOWED HIM TO DO.

SO HOW WERE THEY WRONG EVEN IF YOU WERE SUSPICIOUS BY THE MOVE?

>> I THINK THE FIRST THING THAT'S IMPORTANT TO HIGHLIGHT HERE IS THAT THE PRESIDENT HAS NO AUTHORITY OVER THE CONDUCT OF AMERICAN ELECTIONS.

THAT A STATE AND LOCAL RESPONSIBILITY.

THE ELECTION ASSISTANCE COMMISSION SUPPORTS STATE AND LOCAL OFFICIALS WITH GRANTS, WITH GUIDANCE.

IT SUPPORTS VOTERS, BUT THE FIRING OF THESE OFFICIALS DOES NOT GIVE THE PRESIDENT ANY AUTHORITY OVER THE ELECTIONS AT ALL.

AND I THINK THE MAIN SIGNIFICANCE IS TO SORT OF CONTINUE THE LIES THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT WILL INTERFERE AND THAT STATE AND LOCAL OFFICIALS SHOULD BE, YOU KNOW, IN FEAR OF FEDERAL INTERFERENCE, THAT VOTERS SHOULD BE IN FEAR.

BUT THE FACT REMAINS THAT AMERICAN ELECTIONS ARE SAFE AND SECURED AND ARE ADMINISTERED AT THE STATE AND LOCAL LEVEL BY NEIGHBORS WHO AMERICANS TRUST, RIGHT?

YOU SIT NEXT TO FOLKS AT CHURCH.

YOU STAND BEHIND THEM IN LINE AT THE GROCERY STORE, AND THOSE ARE THE PEOPLE WHO YOU SEE WHEN YOU GET TO THAT GYM TO CHECK IN TO VOTE.

THOSE ARE THE PEOPLE WHO TALLY THE VOTES.

THIS IS NOT HAPPENING IN D. C. UNDER THE --UNDER THE WATCHFUL EYE OF THE WHITE HOUSE.

AND IT'S A STATE AND LOCAL FUNCTION, AND THAT IS THE REASON THAT AMERICANS REMAIN WITH A HIGH DEGREE OF TRUST AND SHOULD IN OUR ELECTIONS.

>> AND THIS MAY BE THE FIRST TIME THAT MANY AMERICANS, MANY OF OUR VIEWERS, VIEWERS AROUND THE WORLD HAVE EVEN HEARD OF THE ELECTION ASSISTANCE COMMISSION.

JUST TALK ABOUT THE ROLE THEY PLAY, THE SIGNIFICANCE OF ENSURING FAIR AND HONEST ELECTIONS HERE IN THE UNITED STATES.

AND, YOU KNOW, WHY THIS IS A BIG DEAL.

IT'S NOT AS IF THE PRESIDENT IS SAYING, HEY, I'M GOING TO GO OUT AND TRY TO FIRE THE SUPREME COURT MEMBERS WHO I DON'T AGREE WITH.

WHY IS THIS SOMETHING THAT THEY SHOULD WORRY ABOUT?

>> YEAH, I MEAN, AGAIN, I THINK OF ALL THE --OF ALL THE ACTIONS THE PRESIDENT IS TAKING RIGHT NOW, IT MAY NOT BE THE THING THEY SHOULD WORRY ABOUT THE MOST.

BECAUSE, AGAIN, THE FUNCTION OF THE ELECTION ASSISTANCE COMMISSION IS FAIRLY NARROWED AND TAILORED UNDER FEDERAL LAW.

IT DOES THINGS LIKE CERTIFY ELECTION MACHINES, PRODUCE THE UNIFORM VOTING FORM UNDER THE NATIONAL VOTER REGISTRATION ACT, VERY DISCREET FUNCTIONS LIKE THAT.

THE FIRING OF THESE ELECTION OFFICIALS NOT GOING TO GIVE THE COMMISSION ANY ELECTION POWER.

THAT SAID THE PRESIDENT DID TO CONTINUE TO DEMONSTRATE THIS INTENTION, TO USE ALL THE TOOLS IN THE TOOLKIT TO INTERFERE IN THE ELECTION AND ENSURE THAT THE ADMINISTRATION'S PREFERRED CANDIDATES ARE SEATED REGARDLESS OF THE WILL OF THE AMERICAN VOTER.

THAT'S THE STRATEGY, RIGHT?

TO DECEIVE AMERICANS ABOUT THE INTEGRITIY OF THE ELECTION, TO DISRUPT ELECTION PROCESSES WHENEVER POSSIBLE, AND THEN TO DENY THE RESULTS, IF NECESSARY.

>> WELL, WHAT THE PRESIDENT IS SAYING THAT HE IS MOST FOCUSED ON, AND HE SAYS ALL AMERICANS SHOULD BE MOST FOCUSED ON IS GETTING THE SAVE ACT PASSED.

WE KNOW THAT IT HAS STALLED IN THE SENATE.

THERE'S A LOT OF FRUSTRATION NOW DIRECTED SPECIFICALLY AT SENATE MAJORITY LEADER JOHN THUNE WHO HAS TOLD PRESIDENT TRUMP TIME AND TIME AGAIN THAT HE DOES NOT HAVE THE VOTES TO GET THIS PASSED.

THE PRESIDENT SAYS HE ONLY WANTS TO MAKE SURE THAT IT IS JUST U. S. CITIZENS THAT ARE VOTING, BUT THAT IS ALREADY THE LAW.

AND WE SHOULD NOTE THAT UTAH JUST REVIEWED OVER 2 MILLION REGISTRATIONS AND FOUND ONE CONFIRMED NON- CITIZEN REGISTRATION AND ZERO --ZERO NONCITIZEN VOTES.

THAT'S JUST ONE STATE.

SO WHAT IS THE PROBLEM THAT THIS BILL THAT THE PRESIDENT SAYS THE MOST IMPORTANT PERHAPS THAT HE'S TRYING -- THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION THAT HE'S TRYING TO GET THROUGH --WHAT DOES IT SOLVE?

>> THERE IS NO REAL PROBLEM THAT IT SOLVES.

IT MERELY HELPS THE ADMINISTRATION PROMOTE THE LIE THAT NONCITIZENS VOTE IN LARGE NUMBERS OR THAT MAIL BALLOT FRAUD EXISTS.

THAT'S THE PURPOSE TO CONTINUE TO SORT OF ELEVATE THE THREAT OF FRAUD AND TO PLANT THE SEED IN AMERICANS' MINDS THAT THERE IS SOMETHING TO BE CONCERNED ABOUT THAT MIGHT LEAD TO AN ELECTION OVERRIDE BY THE WHITE HOUSE LATER ON.

AND WHILE IT IS NOT A REAL PROBLEM, THE PASSAGE OF THE SAVE ACT, OF COURSE, WOULD CREATE MASS DISENFRANCHISEMENT FOR AMERICANS.

THERE IS SOMETHING LIKE 20 MILLION AMERICANS WHO HAVE NEITHER A BIRTH CERTIFICATE NOR A PASSPORT, WHICH WOULD BE REQUIRED TO VOTE.

IT'S REALLY A BURDENSOME REGULATION THAT WOULD MAKE IT HARDER FOR AMERICANS TO VOTE.

I THINK IT'S 69 MILLION AMERICAN WOMEN WHO DON'T HAVE A BIRTH CERTIFICATE THAT MATCHES THEIR CURRENT LEGAL NAME, SO THEY WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO REGISTER TO VOTE UNDER A SAVE ACT REGIME.

IT'S NOT A SERIOUS ATTEMPT AT GOVERNANCE.

IT'S AN ATTEMPT TO ELEVATE LIES ABOUT AMERICAN ELECTIONS.

>> LET'S TALK ABOUT BILL POULTY.

HIS NAME HASN'T COME UP YET IN CONVERSATION.

HE'S NOW THE KKT ACTING DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE.

HE WAS A HOUSING REGULATOR WITH NO INTELLIGENCE BACKGROUND AT ALL, AND THE PRESIDENT SAYS HE'S JUST IN AN ACTING CAPACITY RIGHT NOW BECAUSE WHAT HE WANTS IS FOR POULTY TO DECLASSIFY --THIS IS GOING BACK TO 2020 --2020 ELECTION MATERIAL.

AND IN RESPONSE TO THIS, SENATOR MARK WARREN, WHO IS THE INTEL COMMISSION COCHAIR IN THE SENATE.

HE IS WARNING THAT HE COULD USE FABRICATED INTELLIGENCE AROUND THE MID-TERMS TO, AGAIN, PERHAPS PUT OUT MISINFORMATION, DISINFORMATION.

IS THAT A REALISTIC SCENARIO FROM SENATOR WARREN?

OR DO YOU THINK WARNER OR DO YOU THINK PERHAPS THAT IT IS PERHAPS A HYPOTHETICAL THAT LIKELY WON'T HAPPEN?

>> I CERTAINLY THINK BILL POULTY WAS PUT IN THIS ROLE TO HELP ELEVATE ADMINISTRATION PROPAGANDA AROUND ELECTIONS.

HE'S PROVEN HIMSELF WILLING TO BE THE ADMINISTRATION'S ATTACK DOG IN THE FHFA ROLE, AND I THINK THAT IS WHAT MADE HIM A PRIME CANDIDATE HERE.

I DON'T KNOW, OF COURSE, WHAT KIND OF SELECTIVE DECLASSIFICATION HE MAY ENGAGE IN.

BUT IF HE DOES, IT WILL BE PART OF THIS PROPAGANDA STRATEGY BY THE WHITE HOUSE, AN ATTEMPT TO SOW THE SEEDS OF DOUBT SO THAT THEY CAN DECEIVE AMERICANS ABOUT THE TRUSTWORTHINESS OF THEIR ELECTIONS.

AND POULTY, JAY CLAYTON I KNOW HAS A CONFIRMATION HEARING SCHEDULED THIS WEEK.

HE MAY NOT BE IN THE ROLE VERY LONG, BUT I DO BELIEVE THE ATTEMPT TO DECEIVE AMERICANS ABOUT THE ELECTION IS THEN THAT HE IS IN THAT ROLE RIGHT NOW.

>> SO DO YOU PAY ATTENTION, THOUGH, WHEN YOU HEAR A WARNING LIKE THAT FROM MARK WARNER, THE SENATE INTEL COMMITTEE COCHAIR?

>> I ABSOLUTELY PAY ATTENTION.

AND I THINK SENATOR WARNER IS EXACTLY RIGHT, THAT THIS IS ALL PART OF THE ELECTION INTERFERENCE STRATEGY THAT HAS REALLY BEEN RAMPING UP THIS SUMMER.

YOU MENTIONED A NUMBER OF THESE INCIDENTS, AND I THINK WE'RE SEEING IT ACROSS THE BOARD THAT THE ADMINISTRATION IS LOOKING TO CAPTURE THE MEDIA CYCLE WITH NEWS THAT CAUSES AMERICANS TO DOUBT THOSE ELECTION RESULTS, THAT WHICH, AGAIN, THOSE ELECTIONS ARE ADMINISTERED BY THEIR FRIENDS AND NEIGHBORS AND ARE TRUSTWORTHY.

I THINK THAT WE SHOULD, YOU KNOW, KEEP IN MIND WHAT WE CAN CONTROL, WHICH IS THAT AMERICANS CAN QUESTION THE SOURCES OF INFORMATION WHEN THEY SEE INFORMATION.

UNFORTUNATELY, THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS NO LONGER ONE OF THOSE TRUSTWORTHY SOURCES, WHICH MAKES SUPPORTING INDEPENDENT MEDIA THAT MUCH MORE IMPORTANT AND JUST REALLY ENGAGING IN THE DEMOCRATIC WORK OF CONSIDERING COMPETING IDEAS AND COMING TO A CONCLUSION RATHER THAN ACCEPTING THE WHITE HOUSE NARRATIVE.

>> THERE WAS A NOTABLE AND MEMORABLE MOMENT, AN EXCHANGE RECENTLY A FEW WEEKS AGO WITH COMEDIAN BILL MARR ON HIS HBO SHOW.

WHEN HE WAS INTERVIEWING VICE PRESIDENT J. D. VANCE, AND HE SPECIFICALLY ASKED HIM ON ELECTION INTEGRITY, ON WHY THIS IS SOMETHING, AND WHY THE PRESIDENT SPECIFICALLY KEEPS WANTING TO RELITIGATE 2020.

HERE'S WHAT HE SAID, AND HERE WAS THE VICE PRESIDENT'S RESPONSE.

>> HERE'S MY DEAL BREAKER FOR YOUR SIDE.

>> OKAY.

>> OKAY, UNDER TRUMP YOU GUYS HAVE TWO OUTCOMES AN ELECTION CAN BE.

EITHER WE WIN OR THEY CHEATED.

THAT [ BLEEP ] HAS TO STOP.

AND THAT MEANS THE PERSON WHO HAS TO STOP IT WOULD BE YOU OR MARCO.

CAN YOU TELL ME YOU WILL DO THAT?

WILL YOU BRING US BACK TO THE MIDDLE AT LEAST ON THAT, WHEN WE CONCEDE ELECTIONS?

>> I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD NOT CONCEDE ELECTIONS, BUT I DON'T THINK THAT'S WHAT'S GOING ON.

THE BIGGEST CRITICISM I HAD ON THE 2020 ELECTION IS THAT YOU HAD TECHNOLOGY COMPANIES THAT WERE QUITE LITERALLY CENSORING NEGATIVE INFORMATION ABOUT THE LEFT AND PROMOTING NEGATIVE INFORMATION ABOUT THE RIGHT.

THE SENSE IN WHICH I THINK THE ELECTION IN 2020 WAS RIGGED --I'M SORRY -- IS THAT YOU HAD TECHNOLOGY COMPANIES THAT WERE PUTTING THEIR THUMB ON A SCALE IN A WAY THAT COMPLETELY OBLITERATED THE REAL OPEN EXCHANGE OF IDEAS.

>> OKAY.

SO THERE YOU HEARD THE VICE PRESIDENT SAY THAT CANDIDATES SHOULD CONCEDE, BUT THEN HE CALLED THE 2020 ELECTION RIGGED IN A FUNDAMENTAL SENSE.

I'M NOT SURE WHAT THIS MEANS, BUT THIS IDEA HAS ALREADY BEEN PLANTED IN THE MINDS OF MILLIONS OF AMERICANS --REPUBLICANS, MAYBE SOME INDEPENDENTS, MAYBE EVEN SOME DEMOCRATS.

WHO KNOWS?

BUT AFTER YEARS OF HEARING PRESIDENT TRUMP AND THOSE OF HIS SUPPORTERS QUESTION THE 2020 ELECTION AND THE VALIDITY OF IT.

AT THIS POINT --AND I'M JUST GIVING YOU THE REPUBLICAN ARGUMENT -- WHY NOT JUST DOUBLE DOWN AND PERHAPS HAVE EVEN MORE VERIFICATION OPTIONS TO REINSTILL CONFIDENCE FOR THOSE WHO HAVE LOST IT?

>> THERE'S SIMPLY NOTHING LEFT TO DO, BIANNA.

THERE HAVE BEEN, YOU KNOW, SIX YEARS OF TALLYING AND RE-TALLYING, AND I THINK THERE IS NO VALID STONE HERE THAT HAS BEEN LEFT UNTURNED.

OF COURSE THE REASON WE'RE HEARING ABOUT IT NOW IS ABOUT THE 2026 ELECTION, NOT THE 2020 ELECTION.

AND ANY ADDITIONAL AIRTIME GIVEN TO RELITIGATING THOSE ARGUMENTS, WHICH AGAIN 60 LAWSUITS IN ADDITION TO THE ROUNDS OF CERTIFICATION AND TALLYING AND VERIFYING THAT ARE BUILT INTO THE PROCESSES IN ALL 50 STATES DIDN'T UNCOVER ANYTHING.

THERE'S SIMPLY NOTHING LEFT TO UNCOVER.

AND WITH RESPECT TO --I'M A FREE EXPRESSION LOYER.

I CANNOT NOT PICK UP ON THAT PIECE THAT THE VICE PRESIDENT MENTIONED.

WITH RESPECT TO THE QUESTION OF WHETHER THERE WAS CENSORSHIP BY THE PLATFORMS IN 2020, YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT THE DEGREE THAT PRIVATE COMPANIES OPTED TO TAKE INFORMATION ABOUT FALSEHOODS OFF THEIR PLATFORMS IS --YOU KNOW, IS SOMETHING PEOPLE CAN HAVE DIFFERENT VIEWS ON.

SITS SIMPLY NOT THE SAME KIND OF PROBLEM FOR GOVERNANCE AS WHEN NOW YOU HAVE THE MECHANICS OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT BROUGHT TO BEAR ON SUPPRESSING INFORMATION THROUGH THE FCC, THROUGH ALL THE PENTAGON AND WHITE HOUSE TACTICS THAT WE'RE ALL WELL AWARE OF IN THE MEDIA SUPPRESSION RIGHT NOW.

>> WELL, JUST A REMINDER THAT CHRIS KREBS, A TOP ELECTIONS OFFICIAL IN 2020, HE'S REPUBLICAN.

HE CALLED THAT ELECTION THE MOST SECURE IN AMERICAN HISTORY.

SHORTLY THEREAFTER HE WAS FIRED, SO THAT IS ANOTHER --ANOTHER POINT TO MAKE HERE, AS WE CONTINUE TO RELITIGATE THIS.

RACHEL GOODMAN, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR EXPERTISE.

REALLY APPRECIATE THE TIME.

>> GREAT TO BE HERE.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

> >> AND WE TURN NOW TO THE U. K. , WHERE A RECENT STRING OF ATTACKS TARGETING THE JEWISH COMMUNITY HAS LEFT MANY FEARING FOR THEIR SAFETY.

THE BRITISH GOVERNMENT HAS JUST ANNOUNCED ADDITIONAL POLICE PROTECTION INCLUDING EXTRA PATROLS IN PREDOMINANTLY JEWISH NEIGHBORHOODS.

JOMANA KARADSHEH SPENT THE DAY IN A SPECIALIZED MET POLICE TO TACKLE ANTI-SEMITISM.

AND A WARNING VIEWERS MAY FIND SOME OF THE FOOTAGE IN HER REPORT DISTURBING.

>> DESCRIPTION OF THE SUSPECT, PLEASE.

>> THEY'RE RESPONDING TO A CALL ABOUT A MALE WITH A KNIFE OUTSIDE A SCHOOL.

WE ARE REALLY CLOSE BY.

>> THEY WENT DOWN THE ROAD.

ALL I KNOW THERE WAS ONE WITH A KNIFE, AND ONE WAS INDECENT.

>> AND HOW LONG AGO DID THEY GO?

>> LESS THAN A MINUTE.

>> THIS ISN'T AN ORDINARY POLICE PATROL.

WE'RE OUT WITH THE MET POLICE'S PROACTIVE PATROLS, ADDITIONAL FORCES DEDICATED TO SECURING THESE PREDOMINANT JEWISH AREAS OF LONDON.

THEY SPOT MEN MATCHING THE DESCRIPTION.

>> OH, WHOA, WHOA, WHOA.

>> DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA WHY THEY'VE GIVEN A DESCRIPTION THAT MATCHES YOU?

>> NO IDEA, MATE.

>> AFTER A QUICK STOP AND SEARCH, THEY FIND NO KNIFE SO THEY LET THEM GO.

WHAT WE SAW NOW THAT WAS AN INCIDENT THAT DIDN'T SEEM TO BE TARGETING THE JEWISH COMMUNITY, BUT YOU RESPONDED.

>> OVERRIDING AIM IN POLICE SERVICE TO PROTECT LIFE.

SO WHEN A CALL COMES OUT A KNIFE COULD BE PRESENT, NO MATTER WHO IT IS, IT'S OUR JOB TO RESPOND TO THAT.

>> FOLLOWING A STRING OF ATTACKS EARLIER THIS YEAR MOSTLY TARGETING THE JEWISH COMMUNITY, THE TERRORISM THREAT LEVEL IN THE U. K. WAS RAISED TO SEVERE, AND THE MET POLICE IS ON HIGH ALERT, ESPECIALLY IN THIS PART OF NORTH LONDON.

>> THE DEMAND HAS BEEN ASTRONOMICAL.

IT'S DEFINITELY THE HIGHEST DEMAND I'VE EVER SEEN.

I THINK IT'S BECAUSE OF THE INCIDENTS THAT HAVE HAPPENED IN THE AREA, AND QUITE NATURALLY THE COMMUNITIES THAT LIVE WITHIN THIS AREA OF LONDON FEELING UNSAFE.

>> WE'VE ALSO SEEN SORT OF PHYSICAL ASSAULTS, SO WE HAD ONE NOT THAT LONG AGO WHERE SOMEONE WAS MAKING NAZI SALUTES AND SORT OF SHOUTING HEIL HITLER AND BABY KILLERS AND THAT AND WALKED INTO A CAFE AND PUNCHED A MAN IN THE FACE SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY WERE JEWISH.

>> THESE OFFICERS HAVE ALSO HAD TO DEAL IN WHAT THEY SAY HAS BEEN A STEEP INCREASE IN ALL KINDS OF ANTI-SEMITIC ABUSE.

INCIDENTS LIKE THIS ONE.

AUTHORITIES SAY TWO YOUNG MEN TRAVELED TO A JEWISH AREA TO FILM THEMSELVES FOR SOCIAL MEDIA GOING, QUOTE, FISHING FOR JEWS WITH A BANK NOTE ON THE END OF A FISHING ROD.

THEY BOTH PLEADED GUILTY AND WERE CONVICTED OF RELIGIOUSLY AGGRAVATED HARASSMENT.

FOR MANY IN THIS COMMUNITY THE VISIBLE POLICE PRESENCE IS WELCOME.

>> THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF PATROL CARS, LIKE, DRIVING UP AND DOWN.

BUT ALSO I FEEL IT'S NEEDED.

>> SINCE THE OCTOBER 7th ATTACKS AND THE WAR IN GAZA, ANTI-SEMITIC OFFENSES IN LONDON HAVE HIT RECORD LEVELS, ACCORDING TO OFFICIAL FIGURES, AND HAVE SPIKED AGAIN SINCE THE U. S. AND ISRAEL'S CONFLICT IN IRAN.

THE MET WORKS CLOSELY WITH LOCAL JEWISH SECURITY GROUPS.

>> HOW ARE YOU?

>> 24-YEAR-OLD NATHANIEL FIHDI SAYS THE POLICE PRESENCE HELPS BUT HE STILL FEELS NERVOUS ABOUT REVEALING HIS FAITH IN PUBLIC.

IF YOU WERE ABLE TO EXPLAIN WHAT IT'S LIKE BEING JEWISH IN THE U. K. RIGHT NOW TO PEOPLE OUTSIDE THE COUNTRY, WHAT WOULD YOU SAY?

>> WORRYING.

I MEAN, I'M NOT PARTICULARLY RELIGIOUS, BUT I NOW REFRAIN FROM BEING OPENLY JEWISH, AND I KNOW LOTS OF OTHER FAMILIES WHO ARE IN MY COMMUNITY WHO HAVE NOW DECIDED TO MOVE TO DIFFERENT COUNTRIES BECAUSE BEING HERE JUST DOESN'T FEEL SAFE ANYMORE.

>> WITH BRITISH JEWS FEELING THE REPERCUSSIONS OF WHAT'S HAPPENING THOUSANDS OF MILES AWAY AND ANTI-SEMITIC HATE ON THE RISE, WHAT STARTED AS TEMPORARY PATROLS IS NOW HERE TO STAY.

>> AS WE DISCUSSED EARLIER, THE CRUCIAL U. S. MID- TERM ELECTIONS ARE COMING UP.

AT A TIME WHEN THE PARTISAN DIVIDE FEELS MORE STARK THAN EVER, AMERICANS WILL LIKELY FACE ONE OF TWO CHOICES -- DEMOCRATS OR REPUBLICANS.

BUT DO MOST VOTERS FEEL THEIR POLITICAL AND CULTURAL IDENTITIES ALIGN THEM WITH EITHER MAJOR PARTY?

A NEW PEW RESEARCH CENTER REPORTS SAYS NO.

JOCELYN KILEY IS A DIRECTOR OF THE RESEARCH AT THE ORGANIZATION, AND SHE TELLS HARI SREENIVASAN ABOUT HOW THE PICTURE OF AMERICAN POLITICS IS FAR MORE NUANCED.

>> BIANNA, THANKS.

JOCELYN KILEY, THANKS SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

WE KEEP HEARING THIS IDEA THAT PEOPLE IN THE UNITED STATES ARE DIVIDED, AND MOST OFTEN WE THINK OF RED OR BLUE, REPUBLICAN OR DEMOCRAT.

AND WHAT YOU'VE CREATED IS THIS TYPOLOGY IN A NEW REPORT CALLED "BEYOND RED VERSUS BLUE," WHERE YOU WRITE THAT MANY AMERICANS HOLD A COMPLEX MIX OF VALUES AND BELIEFS THAT DON'T ALWAYS FIT NEATLY INTO EITHER MAJOR PARTY.

THE RESULT IS A PICTURE OF AMERICAN POLITICS WITH FAR MORE THAN TWO COLORS IN IT.

WHAT DID YOU FIND?

>> SO THIS IS OUR PEW RESOURCE CENTER, POLITICAL TYPOLOGY, IT'S A PROJECT THAT'S NEAR AND DEAR TO MY HEART THAT WE'VE DONE FOR MANY YEARS.

BACK WHEN -- THE FIRST ONE WAS DONE IN 1987.

THE AIM OF IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN TO GIVE AMERICANS A SENSE OF THE CONTOURS OF THE AMERICAN POLITICAL LANDSCAPE AND TO LOOK BEYOND RED VERSUS BLUE.

WE TALK A LOT ABOUT REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS, BUT AS YOU SAY WITHIN THOSE COALITIONS, THERE'S A LOT OF DIVERSITY AND NUANCE.

AND THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE OVERLAPPING VIEWS.

SO, FOR INSTANCE, WE FIND NINE POLITICAL GROUPS, AND THIS YEAR'S POLITICAL TYPOLOGY, I THINK YOU CAN FAIRLY SAY THAT FOUR OF THEM --TWO ON THE LEFT, TWO ON THE RIGHT --ARE DEEPLY PARTISAN, DEEPLY IDEOLOGICAL, AT LEAST IN BROAD STROKES.

BUT THEN WE HAVE FIVE OTHER GROUPS.

ONE IS FAIRLY POLITICALLY DISENGAGED, A GROUP WE CALL THE TUNED OUT MIDDLE.

BUT THEN FOUR OTHER GROUPS THAT ARE MORE MIXED IN THEIR POLITICAL VALUES EVEN AS THEY GENERALLY ALIGN TO ONE PARTY OR THE OTHER.

SO I'LL GIVE YOU ONE EXAMPLE.

ACTUALLY, THE BIGGEST GROUP IN THIS YEAR'S POLITICAL ITYPOLOGY IS A GROUP WE CALL THE ORDER AND OPPORTUNITY LEFT.

THIS IS A GROUP THAT IS MORE DEMOCRATIC THAN REPUBLICAN BY ACTUALLY A FAIRLY WIDE MARGIN BUT STILL HAS ABOUT A QUARTER OF PEOPLE WHO IDENTIFY AS REPUBLICANS AND REPUBLICAN LEANERS AS A PART OF THAT GROUP.

IT'S A GROUP THAT'S ECONOMICALLY LIBERAL, FAIRLY FINANCIALLY STRESSED, RACIALLY AND ETHNICALLY DIVERSE, BUT ON SOME ISSUES OF, YOU KNOW, SOCIAL ISSUES, ISSUES AROUND IMMIGRATION, I THINK YOU CHARACTERIZE THEIR VIEWS AS MORE MODERATE.

AND SO EVEN THOUGH THEY'RE UNBALANCED MORE IN THE DEMOCRATIC COALITION THAN THE REPUBLICAN COALITION BY A FAIRLY WIDE MARGIN, THEY HAVE SOME VALUES THAT PULL THEM TO THE MIDDLE OR EVEN IN SOME CASES A LITTLE BIT TOWARDS THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.

>> YOU ASKED, WHAT, MORE THAN 10,000 ADULTS THESE QUESTIONS --30 DIFFERENT QUESTIONS.

AND YOU'RE NOT NECESSARILY ASKING ABOUT, WELL, DID YOU VOTE DEMOCRAT ALL THE TIME.

YOU'RE ASKING REALLY QUESTIONS ABOUT VALUES.

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

SO THE AIM OF THIS PROJECT IS TO SORT OF SHOW AMERICANS HOW THEIR VALUES ALIGN.

WE ABSOLUTELY DO.

ON THE SURVEY WE ASK QUESTIONS ABOUT THEIR PARTISANSHIP AND WHO THEY VOTED FOR.

IN ORDER TO CREATE RELATIONSHIPS ABOUT TYPOLOGY GROUPS INSTEAD WE ASK ABOUT THEIR VIEWS ON IMMIGRATION, THEIR VIEWS ON RACE AND ETHNICITY, THEIR VIEWS ON THE GOVERNMENT AND THE ROLE OF SAFETY NET, GOVERNMENT REGULATION.

ANY OTHER NUMBER OF ISSUES THAT WHEN WE TALK ABOUT OUR POLITICS TODAY THESE ARE THE ISSUES UNDERLYING THAT -- THOSE PARTISAN COALITIONS.

AND SO THEN WE USE THE ANSWERS TO THOSE QUESTIONS TO FIND PEOPLE --TO FIND GROUPS IN THE PUBLIC.

AND THEN WE ANALYZE THOSE GROUPS.

>> YOU DIDN'T PUT THIS ON A SPECTRUM.

IT WASN'T A SINGLE LINE WHERE YOU COULD SAY THAT THE EXTREMES BY BOTH SIDES.

I MEAN, AS YOU START LOOKING AT THE SORT OF VALUES QUESTION, IT REALLY ENDS UP TWISTING AND KIND OF TURNING INTO I DON'T KNOW SOME KIND OF A 3-D SHAPE, WHERE YOU CAN HAVE POLITICAL VALUES THAT MIGHT ACTUALLY DIVERGE FROM YOUR SPOT ON THE SPECTRUM, SO TO SPEAK.

>> YEAH, THAT'S EXACTLY RIGHT.

WE OFTEN INCLUDING IN A LOT OF MY OTHER WORK WE TALK ABOUT THE SPECTRUM FROM LIBERAL TO CONSERVATIVE.

AND THAT IS REAL AND THAT IS IMPORTANT, BUT IT'S ALSO IMPORTANT TO ILLUSTRATE I THINK WHAT WE SEE IN THE PUBLIC, WHICH IS THAT THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO HOLD A MIX OF VALUES THAT ARE MAYBE CONSERVATIVE ON ONE QUESTION AND LIBERAL ON ANOTHER.

BUT THEN SOMEBODY ELSE WHO IS CONSERVATIVE ON THE QUESTION THAT OTHER PERSON IS LIBERAL AND LIBERAL ON THE QUESTION THAT OTHER PERSON IS CONSERVATIVE ABOUT.

SO ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO WITH THIS PROJECT IS --IS TO SHOW, YOU KNOW, THE WAYS THAT OUR POLITICS ARE CONSISTENT IN THIS IDEOLOGICAL WAY BUT ALSO THE WAYS THAT THERE ARE, YOU KNOW, SOMETIMES PLACES WHERE THE CROSSOVER ISN'T NECESSARILY CLEARLY ALIGNED WITH IDEOLOGY.

>> OKAY, LET'S GO THROUGH THIS BOX LITTLE BY LITTLE HERE.

SO ON THE EXTREMES, TELL ME WHAT DO THESE GROUPS HAVE IN COMMON?

YOU'VE CALL THEM, YOU KNOW, HIGHLY IDEOLOGICAL, POLITICALLY ENGAGED.

WHETHER IT'S ON THE RIGHT OR THE LEFT.

WHAT DO THEY HAVE IN COMMON, AND THEN MAYBE WHAT ACTUALLY BREAKS THEM APART INTO PULLING THEM INTO THESE SEPARATE BOXES?

>> YEAH, AND THEY DO HAVE A LOT IN COMMON.

I'LL START WITH THE LEFT.

WE HAVE A GROUP CALLED LEFT PROGRESSIVES, THAT'S 7% OF THE AMERICAN PUBLIC.

WE ALSO HAVE A GROUP CALLED THE LOYAL LIBERALS.

THAT'S 11% OF THE AMERICAN PUBLIC.

THEY ARE THE GROUPS ON THE DEMOCRATIC SIDE WHO ARE MOST LIKELY TO VOTE, THEIR VOICES ARE FAIRLY LOUD IN OUR POLITICS.

AND THEY, YOU KNOW, IN BROAD STROKES YOU CAN SAY THAT BOTH OF THESE GROUPS ARE DEEPLY LIBERAL.

IT'S ABSOLUTELY THE CASE.

AND YET THERE ARE IMPORTANT DIFFERENCES, AND I THINK ONE OF THE MOST INTERESTING THINGS IS THAT THE LEFT PROGRESSIVES, EVEN THEY ARE PROGRESSIVE ACROSS THE BOARD, THEY HAVE REALLY STRONG CRITIQUES OF THE AMERICAN ECONOMIC SYSTEM.

THEY ALSO HAVE SOME SKEPTICISM ABOUT THE ROLE AMERICA HAS PLAYED IN FOREIGN POLICY, AND VERY INTERESTINGLY DESPITE HOW LEFT THEY ARE THEY HAVE SOME CRITICISMS OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.

THEY'RE --YOU KNOW, THEY STILL OVERWHELMINGLY VOTED FOR KAMALA HARRIS OVER DONALD TRUMP.

THEY ARE DEEPLY CRITICAL OF DONALD TRUMP AND REPUBLICAN PARTY, BUT THAT DOESN'T NECESSARILY MEAN THAT THEY'RE HAPPY WITH THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.

ON THE OTHER HAND, LOYAL LIBERALS ARE ALSO ON MANY OF THESE SAME ISSUES IN A SIMILAR PLACE.

WHERE THEY DIFFER IS THAT THEY ARE --FIRST OF ALL, THEY'RE A LITTLE OLDER, AND THEY ARE ALSO MORE ATTACHED TO THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.

THEY HAVE A MORE POSITIVE VIEW OF AMERICA'S ROLE IN THE WORLD, AND THEY THINK -- AND THEY THINK THAT AMERICA HAS AN IMPORTANT ROLE TO PLAY IN THE WORLD.

THEY'RE STRONG SUPPORTERS, FOR INSTANCE, OF NATO.

THAT'S NOT TO SAY THE LEFTWARD PROGRESSIVES DISLIKE NATO, BUT NOT TO THE DEGREE THAT THE LOYAL LIBERALS DO.

ON THE RIGHT, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE KIND OF COROLLARY GROUPS ARE THE GROUP I CALL THE NO APOLOGIES RIGHT AND THE FAITH FIRST CONSERVATIVES.

AGAIN, BOTH OF THESE GROUPS ARE DEEPLY REPUBLICAN.

THEY STRONGLY SUPPORTED DONALD TRUMP IN '24 AND LARGELY CONTINUE TO BE STRONG SUPPORTERS OF TRUMP TODAY.

NO APOLOGIES RIGHT PERHAPS IT THE STRONGEST SUPPORTERS OF DONALD TRUMP.

THEY ARE BOTH CONSERVATIVE ACROSS THE BOARD FOR THE MOST PART.

NO APOLOGIES RIGHT, PART OF WHY WE CALL THEM THAT IS THEY HAVE A SOMEWHAT MAXIMALIST APPROACH TO POLITICS.

THEY'RE NOT LOOKING FOR COMPROMISE WITH THE OTHER SIDE IN OUR POLITICS.

AND --AND THEY'RE MOTIVATED AS MUCH BY THAT AS BY SOME OF THEIR POLITICAL OPINIONS.

FAITH FIRST CONSERVATIVES, AGAIN, ARE STRONG SUPPORTERS OF THE PRESIDENT.

THEY'RE VERY LIKELY TO CONSIDER THEMSELVES SUPPORTERS OF THE MAKE AMERICA GREAT MOVEMENT, SO I DON'T MEAN TO SEPARATE THEM OUT BY THAT.

ONE OF THE INTERESTING DIFFERENCES HERE IS THAT FAITH FIRST CONSERVATIVES ARE PARTICULARLY MOTIVATED BY ISSUES AROUND MORALITY AND RELIGION.

AND SO, FOR INSTANCE, WHILE BOTH GROUPS TEND TO SAY THAT ABORTION SHOULD BE ILLEGAL AND ALTHOUGH MOST IN CIRCUMSTANCES FAITH FIRST CONSERVATIVES ARE ACTUALLY THE MOST LIKELY GROUP TO SAY THAT.

ONE WAY TO THINK ABOUT IT IS THESE GROUPS ARE SITTING VERY COMFORTABLY IN COALITION WITH EACH OTHER, BUT THERE JUST ARE SOME DIFFERENCES IN WHAT MOTIVATES THEM AND WHY.

>> WHEN I HEAR YOU TALK ABOUT THE GROUPS ON THE EXTREMES AND THE ISSUES THAT THEY CARE ABOUT AND ALSO THE NUMBERS IN AMERICA OF HOW MANY PERCENTAGE OF PEOPLE KIND OF FIT INTO THESE GROUPS, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE TWO EXTREMES ON EITHER SIDE THAT COMPRISE 20% ON EITHER SIDE, BUT THAT SEEMS TO BE ALL WHERE THE NOISE IS COMING FROM.

THEY SEEM TO HAVE A DISPROPORTIONATE IMPACT ON THE NATIONAL CONVERSATION, THE DEBATE, EVEN POLICY.

>> I THINK THERE ARE --WE SEE REASONS FOR THAT IN OUR DATA.

THIS IS NOT NEW TO THIS POLITICAL MOMENT, BUT IT'S OFTEN BEEN THE CASE THAT GROUPS --GROUPS, PEOPLE WHO ARE MORE IDEOLOGICALLY CONSISTENT, MORE IDEOLOGICALLY MOTIVATED ARE --PARTICIPATE AT MUCH HIGHER LEVELS IN POLITIC.

SO WE SEE THAT, YOU KNOW, IN OUR DATA WE'RE ABLE TO LOOK AT WHO VOTED IN 2024, SO WE CAN SEE THOUGHT THOSE GROUPS I WAS JUST TALKING ABOUT ARE THE GROUPS THAT ARE MOST LIKELY TO HAVE TURNED OUT IN A 2024 ELECTION.

THEY'RE ALSO MORE LIKELY THAN OTHER GROUPS TO SAY THAT WHAT WILL HAPPEN IN THIS MID- TERM REALLY MATTERS FOR THEM.

AND CICI IT POP UP IN ANY OTHER WAY THAT YOU CAN IMAGINE MEASURING POLITICAL ENGAGEMENT, HOW CLOSELY THEY FOLLOW NEWS AND INFORMATION, WHETHER THEY GO TO RALLIES, AND WHETHER THEY GIVE MONEY AND SO ON AND SO FORTH.

SO TO SOME EXTENT, THAT -- THAT EXPLAINS A LITTLE BIT THAT THEY HAVE A LARGER VOICE IN OUR POLITICS.

>> LET'S TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE BIG, GIANT HUNK OF THE FIVE GROUPS THAT YOU HAVE IN THE MIDDLE.

YOU HAVE ONE GROUP THAT'S, AS YOU KIND OF SAY, HAS CHECKED OUT.

BUT WHAT ABOUT THOSE FOUR THAT ARE I GUESS WHO EVERYONE IS COMPETING FOR TO TRY AND GET THEM TO GET OUT TO THE POLLS AND OBVIOUSLY PULL THE LEVER IN THE DIRECTION OF THE PARTY?

>> YEAH, AND EVEN WITHIN THERE THERE'S SOME NUANCE.

SO I'LL START, FOR INSTANCE, WITH THE GROUP WE CALL THE UNCONVENTIONAL RIGHT, WHICH IS A OVERWHELMINGLY REPUBLICAN-ORIENTED GROUP.

IT'S YOUNGER THAN SOME OF THE OTHER GROUPS ON THE RIGHT.

THEY ARE CONSERVATIVE ACROSS MANY ISSUES BUT NOT AS DEEPLY CONSERVATIVE AS THOSE GROUPS I WAS MENTIONING BEFORE.

AND ON SOME ISSUES ON INCLUDING SOME CULTURAL ISSUES PARTICULARLY THINGS LIKE ABORTION AND GUNS, I WOULD CHARACTERIZE THEIR VIEWS AS MORE MODERATE THAN THE POSITIONS THAT THE NO APOLOGIES RIGHT AND FAITH- FIRST CONSERVATIVES TAKE.

THEY'RE AN INTERESTING GROUP BECAUSE THEY TURN OUT AT MUCH LOWER RATES.

IF YOU THINK ABOUT COMPETING FOR THEIR VOTES, TARGETING THAT GROUP, IT'S FAIRLY UNLIKELY I WOULD SAY THAT THIS IS A GROUP THAT WOULD BE EASILY SWAYED TO COME OVER TO THE DEMOCRATIC SIDE.

BUT THE QUESTION IS A TURNOUT QUESTION.

CAN THE -- YOU KNOW, CAN THE REPUBLIC --IF YOU'RE A REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST, HOW DO YOU GET THIS GROUP TO TURN OUT AND NOT STAY HOME?

AND I THINK ONE OF THE INTERESTING THINGS ABOUT THAT GROUP IS, YOU KNOW, AS I SAY, THEY OVERWHELMINGLY VOTED FOR DONALD TRUMP IN 2024.

BUT ON THE LAST MEASURE WE HAVE OF HIS PRESIDENTIAL APPROVAL AMONG THIS GROUP FROM A COUPLE OF MONTHS AGO, THAT APPROVAL HAD FALLEN TO JUST OVER 50% AMONG THIS GROUP.

SO THERE IS -- AND THAT DECLINE IS LARGER THAN ANY OTHER GROUP IN OUR TYPOGRAPHY.

THERE'S A COROLLARY GROUP WE CALL THE LEFT TYPE LEFT.

WHEN THEY VOTE THEY'RE OVERWHELMINGLY FOR DEMOCRATS.

THEY'RE FAIRLY YOUNG.

THEY'RE VERY DISAFFECTED WITH OUR POLITICS TODAY AND THEY'RE VERY ECONOMICALLY STRESSED.

AND SO THE CHALLENGE THERE IS FOR DEMOCRATS TO GET THAT GROUP EXCITED TO TURNOUT FOR THEM.

BECAUSE LIKE THE UNCONVENTIONAL RIGHT, IT'S FAIRLY UNLIKELY THAT REPUBLICANS ARE GOING TO BE ABLE TO TARGET PEOPLE IN THAT GROUP.

AND THEN ONE OF THE OTHER GROUPS THAT I HAVEN'T TALKED ABOUT YET IS A GROUP WE CALLED THE PRAGMATIC AND POLITE RIGHT.

IT'S 11% OF THE PUBLIC.

IT'S ACTUALLY THE OLDEST GROUP IN THE TYPOLOGY.

IT IS MAJORITY REPUBLICAN BUT NOT OVERWHELMINGLY.

IT'S ABOUT 56% REPUBLICAN.

ON BALANCE IT VOTED --THIS GROUP VOTED FOR DONALD TRUMP OVER HARRIS IN 2024.

BUT THIS GROUP HAS REALLY SOURED ON THE PRESIDENT OVER THE COURSE OF THE YEAR --THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS.

AND SOME OF THAT IS THIS GROUP, THE PRAGMATICALLY EMPLOYED RIGHT IS A GROUP THAT IS IN FAVOR OF SMALL GOVERNMENT, THAT IS GENERALLY ECONOMICALLY CONSERVATIVE.

BUT THEIR VIEWS ON SOME OTHER ISSUES ARE QUITE MODERATE.

THEY'RE NOT NECESSARILY LIBERAL BUT THEY'RE MODERATE.

>> WHAT DEMOGRAPHIC PATTERNS DID YOU NOTICE IN THE TIPALLGYS?

AGE, ETHNICITY?

>> SURE.

SO YOUNGER AMERICAN ARE MORE LIKELY TO BE DEMOCRATIC, DEMOCRATIC LEANING THAN OLDER AMERICANS.

THAT'S A PATTERN WE'VE SEEN FOR THE LAST 20 YEARS OR SO AND CONTINUES TO HOLD UP.

AND SO THAT SHOWS UP IN OUR POLITICAL TYPOLOGY AS WELL, IN THAT THE GROUPS --YOUNGER AMERICANS ARE MORE LIKELY TO BE FOUND IN THE GROUPS ON THE LEFT THAN OLDER AMERICANS.

AND OLDER AMERICANS ARE MORE LIKELY TO BE FOUND IN THE GROUPS ON THE RIGHT.

THAT SAID --YOU KNOW, EVEN THERE THERE ARE SOME INTERESTING DYNAMICS.

YOUNGER AMERICANS ARE PARTICULARLY MORE LIKELY TO BE FOUND IN THE LEFT PROGRESSIVES AND THE LEFT OUT LEFT GROUPS.

BOTH OF THOSE GROUPS FOR DIFFERENT REASONS, THEY ARE DEMOCRATICALLY LEANING, BUT THEY HAVE CRITIQUES OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.

SO THERE'S THE DISAFFECTION THAT WE'RE SEEING AMONG YOUNGER AMERICANS.

AROUND RACE AND ETHNICITY, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, BROADLY BLACK, HISPANIC, AND TO A LESSER EXTENT ASIAN AMERICANS ARE MORE LIKELY TO BE FOUND IN THE GROUPS ON THE LEFT COMPARED TO WHITE AMERICANS.

AND WHITE AMERICANS ARE MORE LIKELY TO BE FOUND IN THE GROUPS ON THE RIGHT.

EVEN AGAINST THAT, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT'S INTERESTING IS THAT WHITE AMERICANS ARE OVERREPPED, ONE MIGHT SAY IN THE LEFT FOR PROGRESSIVE AND LIBERAL GROUPS.

AND BLACK AMERICANS AND HISPANICS IN PARTICULARLY ARE FAIRLY CONCENTRATED IN THE LEFT OPPORTUNITY LEFT AND LEFT OUT LEFT.

AND THOSE ARE BOTH GROUPS VERY DEMOCRATICALLY LEANING BUT HAVE A MIX OF VIEWS THAT ARE SOMEWHAT LIBERAL.

IN FACT, QUITE LIBERAL ESPECIALLY ON ECONOMICS, BUT MORE MODERATE ON SOME SOCIAL AND CULTURAL ISSUES, ISSUES AROUND GENDER IDENTITY AND TO SOME EXTENT AROUND IMMIGRATION.

THOSE GROUPS TEND TO BE MORE BLACK AND HISPANIC AS WELL.

>> LET'S TAKE AN EXAMPLE TO TRY TO SHOW WHERE VALUES MIGHT MOVE YOU AROUND IN DIFFERENT SPOTS.

RIGHT, IMMIGRATION HOT BUTTON ISSUE DEPENDING ON YOUR DEMOGRAPHIC, DEPENDING ON WHICH OF THESE NINE GROUPS.

I MEAN, I DON'T SEE IT AS AN AUTOMATIC OF IF IT'S IMMIGRATION, THEY'RE AUTOMATICALLY HERE.

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS ABOUT IMMIGRATION, FOR THE MOST PART IT DOES FALL OUT ON AN IDEOLOGICAL SPECTRUM WITH THE MOST CONSERVATIVE GROUPS THE MOST SUPPORTIVE OF RESTRICTIVE IMMIGRATION POLICIES THAN THE MOST LIBERAL GROUPS --THE LEAST SUPPORTIVE OF THESE.

BUT ONE OF THE INTERESTING THINGS IT DEPENDS WHICH QUESTION YOU ASK ABOUT IMMIGRATION.

SO, FOR INSTANCE, WE ASK ABOUT WHETHER THOSE IN THE COUNTRY ILLEGALLY SHOULD BE DEPORTED OR THERE SHOULD BE A PATH TO LEGAL --THERE SHOULD BE A PATH TO LEGAL STATUS.

AND ON THIS QUESTION WE FIND THE NO APOLOGIES RIGHT AND THE FAITH-FIRST CONSERVATIVES OVERWHELMINGLY IN SUPPORT OF LARGE- SCALE DEPORTATION EFFORTS.

THE UNCONVENTIONAL RIGHT ARE SOMEWHAT SPLIT ON THIS QUESTION.

BUT MOST OF THE OTHER GROUPS INCLUDING THE PRAGMATIC AND PROLITE RIGHT ARE MINORITIES OF THOSE GROUPS SAY THERE SHOULD BE A MASS DEPORTATION EFFORT.

ON THE OTHER HAND, IF YOU ASK PEOPLE ABOUT THE IMPORTANCE OF BORDER SECURITY, HAVING STRONG BORDERS AND SO FORTH, YOU FIND THAT ACROSS MOST GROUPS, MOST PEOPLE SAY THIS IS AN EXTREMELY IMPORTANT THING FOR THE U. S. SO OFTEN WE'RE --AND THE GROUPS THAT STAND OUT AS BEING LESS LIKELY TO SAY THIS ARE THE LEFT FOR PROGRESSIVES IN PARTICULAR, AND TO A CERTAIN EXTENT THE LOYAL LIBERALS.

EVEN THERE THE LOYAL LIBERALS, YOU KNOW, A SIZABLE SHARE OF THAT GROUP SAYS IT'S IMPORTANT TO THE COUNTRY TO HAVE STRONG, SECURE BORDERS.

>> YEAH.

>> AND WHAT'S INTERESTING ABOUT THAT IS THAT WE OFTEN TALK ABOUT IMMIGRATION IN TERMS OF A DEBATE BETWEEN THE SORT OF EXTREME RESTRICTIVE IMMIGRATION OLICIES AND MUCH LESS SO.

IN FACT, MOST OF THESE AMERICANS AND MOST OF THESE GROUPS ARE SOMEWHERE IN THE MIDDLE WHEN IT COMES TO IMMIGRATION.

>> JOCELYN KILEY, DIRECTOR OF RESEARCH AT THE PEW RESEARCH CENTER, THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME.

>> THANK YOU.

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