AMNA NAWAZ: The nation of Turkey sits at a crossroads of the world.

And its president, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, is its preeminent leader.

Reelected to office earlier this year, Erdogan has now been in power for 22 years.

Both a NATO and U.S. ally, Turkey's connections to the West are important and vital.

But Erdogan will go his own way when it suits him, as he told me yesterday.

We sat down for an exclusive interview at the Turkish house across the street from the United Nations, where he will speak this week.

President Erdogan, thank you so much for taking the time to sit down with us.

I appreciate it.

RECEP TAYYIP ERDOGAN, Turkish President: Thank you.

AMNA NAWAZ: I want to ask about recent comments you made.

You said just yesterday that your country may abandon its bid to join the European Union.

They previously cited concerns, as you know, about democratic backsliding and human rights.

You have been seeking that E.U.

membership since 1999.

Are you prepared to abandon that bid?

RECEP TAYYIP ERDOGAN (through translator): We attach great importance to the decision made by the E.U.

If the E.U.

would take such a step forward by making such a decision, we would welcome it.

Turkey has been lingering at the doorstep of the E.U.

for the last five decades, and we were always self-sufficient.

We never relied on contributions or support we received from the E.U., so it's not even necessary for us.

AMNA NAWAZ: In July, you suggested that the E.U.

should admit Turkey into the E.U.

if it wanted to see Sweden in NATO.

Do you see those two issues as linked, in your view?

RECEP TAYYIP ERDOGAN (through translator): First and foremost, Sweden's position and our current position within the E.U.

accession negotiations are two separate things.

We have repeatedly stated that we were ready to support Sweden's bid to join NATO, but Sweden is supposed to rise up to the occasion and keep their promises, because, on the streets of Stockholm, we still see terrorists wandering around freely.

AMNA NAWAZ: You did agree at the NATO summit in July, though, to forward Sweden's NATO bid to Turkish Parliament, correct?

So do you expect them to take that up when they reconvene in early October?

RECEP TAYYIP ERDOGAN (through translator): Sweden's bid to join NATO is being assessed by the Turkish Grand National Assembly, and that's where it's going to be eventually ratified.

AMNA NAWAZ: When you say, eventually, it will be considered, do you think that will happen when they reconvene in early October?

When's your expectation of when Parliament will vote on that?

RECEP TAYYIP ERDOGAN (through translator): This is a part of the agenda of the Turkish Grand National Assembly.

The Assembly will see the situation within the framework of its own calendar.

This proposal will come to a vote by the parliamentarians.

AMNA NAWAZ: So, to be clear, I don't hear you committing that this is something you see them taking up anytime soon.

RECEP TAYYIP ERDOGAN (through translator): For that to be happening, of course, Sweden should keep its promises.

Terrorist organizations should immediately stop their demonstrations on the streets of Stockholm, and they should stop their activities, because seeing this actually happening is going to be very important for the Turkish people.

Sweden seemingly carried out legislative amendments, but it's not enough.

AMNA NAWAZ: What about the U.S. sale of F-16s to Turkey?

Do you see that as linked to Turkey supporting Sweden joining NATO?

Because the day after you agreed to forward Sweden's NATO bid to your Parliament, U.S. National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan said that Washington would move forward with that F-16 sale.

In your mind, are the two issues linked?

RECEP TAYYIP ERDOGAN (through translator): I believe these two topics shouldn't be related, because while, primarily, President Biden said that this issue was tied to the Congress, we would always say, OK, we have the Turkish Parliament.

So, these issues are tied to the Parliament.

If the Parliament doesn't make a positive decision about this bid, then there's nothing to do.

AMNA NAWAZ: As you know, there are skeptics in the U.S. Congress of that F-16 sale.

Among them is the chairman of the Senate's powerful Foreign Relations Committee, Senator Bob Menendez.

I spoke with him last week, and he cites a number of reasons he's opposed to the sale right now, you threatening Greek security, the jailing of journalists and opposition politicians, not joining the Western alliance and sanctioning Russia.

And he said: "Turkey has the opportunity to show us and the rest of NATO that it is part of the team."

What do you say to that?

RECEP TAYYIP ERDOGAN (through translator): Bob Menendez is not very familiar with Turkey.

And Menendez doesn't seem to be familiar with Tayyip Erdogan either.

We are friends with Greece for many decades.

We have never been fighting camps against one another.

It seems like Menendez has taken a hostile approach to Turkey and he's trying to pull us toward certain discussions of his choosing.

But we are not going to be part of this.

Our friendship with Greece is not what they make it out to be.

AMNA NAWAZ: What do you make of the senator's concerns, especially in light of Russia's war in Ukraine, of Turkey not joining in sanctioning Russia to the same degree the NATO alliance is and other members of the E.U.?

RECEP TAYYIP ERDOGAN (through translator): Are we supposed to do what the E.U.

members are doing?

Turkey has a different position in the world.

And the E.U.

member states have their different positions.

Russia happens to be one of my closest neighbors.

And we have a common history.

And, similarly, this is how the current process is continuing.

We have launched the grain corridor.

Altogether, 33 million tons of grain were exported to the rest of the world using the Black Sea.

And we didn't do this just because the E.U.

asked us to do so.

It was a humanitarian obligation that we assumed.

AMNA NAWAZ: But Moscow did renege on that deal earlier this month.

And after your early September meeting with Putin, he didn't agree to renew the grain deal.

Can you tell us why that failed?

RECEP TAYYIP ERDOGAN (through translator): We requested this from him, and he said he was going to send one more million tons of grain.

AMNA NAWAZ: Do you know when that will happen?

Because as we understand, those exports have not restarted.

RECEP TAYYIP ERDOGAN (through translator): He said that it was going to be released soon, and we were following the developments.

AMNA NAWAZ: And do you trust him that he will make good on that pledge?

RECEP TAYYIP ERDOGAN (through translator): I have no reason not to trust them.

To the extent the West is reliable, Russia is equally reliable.

For the last 50 years, we have been waiting at the doorstep of the E.U., and, at this moment in time, I trust Russia just as much as I trust the West.

AMNA NAWAZ: And what is that based on?

Because there are a number of critics who will look at the leadership of President Putin and say he is not to be trusted, that even continuing to hold back on the grain deal allows him greater leverage for his war in Ukraine.

RECEP TAYYIP ERDOGAN (through translator): I don't agree.

Half of my natural gas supplies are coming from Russia, which means we have solidarity.

We are taking mutual steps forward, and we are cooperating in the field of defense industry as well.

We can do these things with Russia.

AMNA NAWAZ: What about the war, the continuing war in Ukraine?

Did you speak about that?

Do you have an understanding of how he views it?

Does President Putin believe that he is winning that war?

RECEP TAYYIP ERDOGAN (through translator): I can't say.

We didn't talk about this.

But I need to be very clear and very frank.

It's quite obvious that this war is going to last a long time.

And for the war to end as soon as possible, we would like to be very hopeful.

And Mr. Putin is actually on the side of ending this war as soon as possible.

AMNA NAWAZ: What leads you to believe he would like to end the war?

Nothing we have seen on the battlefield indicates that.

RECEP TAYYIP ERDOGAN (through translator): I'm just taking into account the words of the leader.

And Mr. Putin is on the side of ending this war as soon as possible.

That's what he said.

And I believe his remarks.

AMNA NAWAZ: Do you think that Ukraine will be successful in expelling Russia from Ukrainian territory, including Crimea?

And is that a goal that you support?

RECEP TAYYIP ERDOGAN (through translator): Back in the year 2014, I had certain discussions and talks with President Putin on Crimea.

And I was not successful in my deliberations.

And I couldn't make them withdraw from Crimea.

And I think it's not going to be possible for the time being either.

I think time will only tell.

AMNA NAWAZ: How long do you see this war going?

And how do you see it ending?

RECEP TAYYIP ERDOGAN (through translator): It's impossible for me to give you a calendar about when this war will end or how long it will go.

Only the leaders of the both parties will be able to tell you.

AMNA NAWAZ: Let me ask you more big picture, do you see more of a benefit to your nation's relationship with Russia or with the U.S.?

RECEP TAYYIP ERDOGAN (through translator): This question cannot be asked to a political leader, because the way I engage in politics, to the extent possible, is all about establishing contacts with the nations around the world based on a win-win scenario.

Just as I have good relations with the U.S., similarly, I will have good relations with Russia.

I will continue to have a relationship with the E.U.

member states based on the same approach as well, win-win.

AMNA NAWAZ: There have been a number of high-profile arrests and some recent sentencing in your country that I wanted to ask you about that have gained international attention.

There was a former journalist named Sedef Kabas who was charged with insulting you in tweets.

There was an activist named Osman Kavala who was just in April sentenced to life in prison, another opposition politician, Selahattin Demirtas, who's been serving jail time since 2016.

And your critics will say that jailing many of these people gives the impression that you want them silenced, that they're in some way threatening you.

So are you threatened by these people?

RECEP TAYYIP ERDOGAN (through translator): Why are you so interested in this?

Turkey has a state of law.

Such decisions can only be made by the judiciary.

And if this is what the judiciary has decided to do, let the decisions or the judgments of the judiciary be respected and executed.

I'm not in a position to serve in the name of the judiciary.

This man you have referred to was a financier during these demonstrations, during these protests.

And... AMNA NAWAZ: You're speaking of Osman Kavala; is that right?

RECEP TAYYIP ERDOGAN (through translator): I'm speaking about Osman Kavala.

AMNA NAWAZ: But what about Sedef Kabas?

Should someone be jailed and charged for insulting you in tweets?

RECEP TAYYIP ERDOGAN (through translator): No, I'm not getting involved in this.

The judgments are made by the judiciary, and the same thing applies for Selahattin Demirtas.

He is a terrorist who caused the death of more than 200 people, and the judgment on this terrorist was given by the judiciary again.

AMNA NAWAZ: I will say the European - - pardon the interruptions, sir.

The European Court of Human Rights disagrees with that assessment.

RECEP TAYYIP ERDOGAN (through translator): Don't interrupt.

You have no right to interrupt.

You're not going to interrupt me.

And respect me.

And you are going to respect the judgment of the judiciary as well.

The American judiciary is a full-fledged judiciary.

So is the judiciary of Turkey.

And you have to respect that.

We are a state of law, and inside that state of law, this is how we lived, and this is how we will keep on living.

AMNA NAWAZ: President Erdogan, the Committee to Protect Journalists says Turkey is the fourth most prolific jailer of journalists in the world.

Why are there so many journalists in jail in your nation?

RECEP TAYYIP ERDOGAN (through translator): How many journalists are currently in prison?

Do you have any information?

AMNA NAWAZ: I do, sir.

According to the CPJ, the number doubled from 2021 to 2022.

There were 18 in 2021, more than 40 in 2022.

RECEP TAYYIP ERDOGAN (through translator): If they were supportive of terrorism, those who are supporting terrorism, where would they live or roam freely around the world?

These people have been supportive of terrorism.

They were supporting terrorism, and that the judiciary made judgments on these people.

AMNA NAWAZ: I appreciate you answering those questions, sir.

If I can, what would you like the American people to understand about the current relationship between the U.S. and Turkey?

RECEP TAYYIP ERDOGAN (through translator): The American people, I believe, are following Turkey.

And so long as you produce healthy news and coverage, I think the American people will have access to this healthy information flowing to them.

AMNA NAWAZ: President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, thank you so much for your time.

RECEP TAYYIP ERDOGAN: Thank you.

Thank you.