MICHAEL AUSLIN WELCOME TO THE SHOW.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME WALTER.

>> YOU HAVE THIS GREAT BOOK "NATIONAL TREASURE," WHICH TRACES THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE , EVEN THE PARCHMENT COPY OF IT, I WANTED TO QUOTE A LINE, OUR FOUNDING DOCUMENT REMAINS A POWERFUL STATEMENT OF UNITY, AS MUCH TODAY AS 250 YEARS AGO.

WE ARE ABOUT TO CELEBRATE OUR 250th , WE ARE NOT VERY UNITED, HOW CAN THIS DOCUMENT HELP US REIGNITE --REUNITE?

>> THAT IS THE GREATNESS OF THE DECLARATION OVER HISTORY, MULTIPLE MOMENTS WHERE WE HAVE SEEN THE DEEPLY-DIVIDED, PEOPLE KEPT RETURNING TO IT FOR A COUPLE OF REASONS.

ONE IS, IT GAVE THIS VISION OF THE TYPE OF FUTURE, THE TYPE OF COUNTRY THAT THEY WANTED TO LIVE IN.

SECOND, THEY WOULD LOOK BACK AT TIMES OF DIVISION TO WHAT SEEMED TO BE A TIME OF MORE UNITY, MEANING 1776 , WHEN PATRIOTS ACROSS THESE VERY, VERY DIFFERENT AND OFTEN DIVIDED COLONIES CAME TOGETHER AND THEY TRIED TO RECAPTURE THAT.

THIRD , BECAUSE I STILL BELIEVE, WALTER, AND I WANT TO BELIEVE THAT THE VAST MAJORITY OF AMERICANS REALLY ARE STILL UNITED.

THAT WE HAVE VERY POWERFUL AND STRONG, OFTEN ANGRY VOICES ON BOTH THE RIGHT AND THE LEFT.

BUT THE VAST MAJORITY OF US STILL LIKE OUR NEIGHBORS, TALK TO OUR NEIGHBORS, GO ABOUT DAILY BUSINESS.

AND WHEN THEY DO THAT, THE DOCUMENT IS ONE THAT OFTEN APPEALS TO THEM AS BEING THIS CONSTANT IN THEIR LIVES.

SO, I THINK THAT WE CAN CERTAINLY TALK ABOUT HOW THE FOUNDERS WROTE THE DECLARATION DISTRESS UNITY.

OVER 250 YEARS, IT HAS BECOME THE TOUCHSTONE.

IT IS NOT THE DOCUMENT WE ARGUE OVER, LIKE THE CONSTITUTION.

IT IS THE DOCUMENT THAT TELLS US HOW WE SHOULD WANT TO LIVE TOGETHER.

>> YOU TALKED ABOUT IT BEING AN ASPIRATIONAL DOCUMENT, BECAUSE NOT ALL MEN WERE CREATED EQUAL --CONSIDERED CREATED EQUAL ON THE NEW CONTINENT, IN THE NEW NATION LINCOLN, FOURSCORE AND SEVEN YEARS LATER, EVOKES IT AS HE IS BURYING PEOPLE AT GETTYSBURG.

THE WOMEN AT SENECA FALLS DECLARATION .

SO, IS THAT PART OF WHAT MAKES THIS DOCUMENT IMPORTANT IS THAT IT BECOMES A MISSION STATEMENT?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

IT IS THE GREATNESS OF THE DECLARATION THAT ALLOWS IT TO SILENCES LATER ON.

IT IS WHY DAVID WALKER, THE GREAT BLACK ABOLITIONIST, CAN APPEAL TO THE DECLARATION SAYING YOU AND YOUR FATHERS HAVE NOT LIVED UP TO IT.

HIS WIFE FREDERICK DOUGLASS CAN APPEAL TO IT, WHAT TO THE SLAVE IS THE FOURTH OF JULY?

I DO NOT DESPAIR, BECAUSE OF THE DECLARATION.

AS YOU MENTIONED, ELIZABETH, MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF IMMIGRANTS, FROM NON-WESTERN, WHAT WE WOULD CONSIDER WESTERN, NON-DEMOCRATIC NATIONS, WHO EMBRACE THIS DOCUMENT, AND TRANSLATE IT FOR THEMSELVES, WHICH I TRY TO SHOW IN THE BOOK, TO MAKE IT THEIR NEW BIRTH CERTIFICATE.

THE DOCUMENT APPEALS TO ALL OF THESE PEOPLE AGAIN TO THIS POINT OF UNITY.

THEY ARE NOT ASKING FOR SPECIAL TREATMENT.

THEY ARE ASKING FOR REGULAR TREATMENT.

THEY WANT TO BE TREATED FULLY AS AMERICANS, LIKE EVERY OTHER AMERICAN.

THEY WANT TO BE FULLY PART OF THE COUNTRY, AND NOT TO CARVE OFF ENCLAVES OF ANY KIND.

THAT IS WHY I THINK IT IS THE GREAT UNITY DOCUMENT.

THEY UNDERSTOOD THAT, THAT IS WHY THEY APPEALED TO IT .

THEY COULD'VE SAID, THIS IS ILLEGAL.

BUT THEY APPEALED TO THE SPIRIT WITHIN THE DECLARATION TO SAY, WE WANT TO BE FULLY AMERICAN, LIKE THE REST OF YOU.

THAT IS WHY I THINK IT HAS CARRIED THROUGH SO STRONGLY, THROUGH THE 19th AND 20th CENTURIES, THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT, UP TO TODAY.

>> IT HAS CARRIED THROUGH VERY STRONGLY BUT ORIGINALLY IT WAS NOT CONSIDERED THAT BIG OF A DEAL.

FAMOUSLY, JOHN ADAMS, SAID JULY 2nd WILL BE OUR BIRTHDAY, THAT IS WHEN THEY VOTED FOR THEIR INDEPENDENCE.

GEORGE WASHINGTON, HAVING HIS LIEUTENANTS READ IT IN BATTERY PARK TO HIS TROOPS, IT WAS NOT CELEBRATED ACROSS THE CONTINENTS.

HOW DID IT BECOME SUCH AN IMPORTANT AND CELEBRATED DOCUMENT?

>> JULY 4th, JOHN DUNLAP IS SIDES.

JOHN HANCOCK SENDS THEM AROUND THE COLONIES, NOW THE STATES .

WE DO HAVE RECORDS OF IT BEING RED, PHILADELPHIA, JULY 8, GEORGE WASHINGTON, GENERAL WASHINGTON, LEADS IT TO THE TROOPS ON JULY 9th.

IT IS READ IN BOSTON, NEW HAMPSHIRE, IT MAKES ITS WAY DOWN.

IT TAKES A WHILE, OBVIOUSLY, TO GET ALL THE WAY THROUGH THE COLONIES.

SAVANNA DOES NOT GET IT INTO THE MIDDLE OF AUGUST AND THEN THEY FINALLY COULD HEAR THAT THEY ARE A NEW NATION AND WE HAVE THESE ACCOUNTS.

ABIGAIL ADAMS WRITES OF WHAT HAPPENED IN BOSTON, EVERYONE GETS SO EXCITED, THEY THROW DOWN THE ARMS OF THE KING ON THE OLD STATE HOUSE AND TRAMPLE IT INTO THE DUST AND BURN IT.

BUT YOU ARE RIGHT, AFTER THAT, IT HAS DONE ITS JOB.

PRINTED ON BROADSIDES, PRINTED IN THE NEWSPAPERS, YOU DON'T HAVE TO KEEP TELLING PEOPLE THEY ARE INDEPENDENT, THEY KNOW.

THERE IS OTHER STUFF TO DO, YOU HAVE TO WIN THE WAR, YOU HAVE TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO LIVE TOGETHER AS A NATION.

SO THE DOCUMENT DOES GET FORGOTTEN FOR DECADES AND WHILE AMERICAN CELEBRATE INDEPENDENCE, THEY DO NOT REALLY OFTEN REFERENCE THE DECLARATION.

INTERESTINGLY, BECAUSE OF THAT, THOMAS JEFFERSON IS NOT TRYING TO CLAIM AUTHORSHIP.

JOHN ADAMS IS NOT DISPUTING WHO IS MORE IMPORTANT TO INDEPENDENCE.

BECAUSE THE ISSUE ONLY DEVELOPS LATER.

REALLY, WHERE THE DECLARATION TAKES OFFICE AFTER THE WAR OF 1812, AFTER THE BRITISH WASHINGTON.

IN THE PARCHMENT DECLARATION, WHICH ALMOST NO AMERICAN EVEN KNEW EXISTED, IT TELLS --WAS KEPT ROLLED UP AMONG THE OTHER PAPERS OF STATE.

BY THE SKIN OF ITS TEETH, THIS DOCUMENT IS SPIRITED OUT OF WASHINGTON, CARRIED INTO THE VIRGINIA COUNTRYSIDE, AND SAVED WHEN THE WHITE HOUSE AND CAPITOL, AND STATE HOUSE ARE BURNED.

AMERICAN SAY, THAT IS GREAT.

WHAT WAS SAVED?

IT EXISTED.

NOW THEY WANT TO SEE IT.

A NUMBER OF THINGS HAPPEN RIGHT AT THIS MOMENT.

FIRST OF ALL, A COUPLE OF ENTREPRENEURIAL CALLIGRAPHERS, ESSENTIALLY, AND ARTISTS, CREATE WHAT WE WOULD CONSIDER ARTISTIC REPRODUCTIONS OF THE DECLARATION.

AND FOR THE FIRST TIME, THE VERY CAREFULLY AND FAITHFULLY RETRACED THE SIGNATURES.

THEY HAVE NEVER SEEN THE SIGNATURES.

SUDDENLY YOU ARE SEEING JOHN HANCOCK, THOMAS JEFFERSON, BENJAMIN FRANKLIN, THESE THINGS SELL VERY WELL BY SUBSCRIPTION , YOU HAVE THE FAMOUS PORTRAIT IN THE CAPITOL, NOT THE SIGNING OF THE DECLARATION, IT IS NOT JULY 4th, IT IS THE PRESENTATION OF THE DRIVE TO CONGRESS BUT AMERICANS EMBRACED THIS AS THE MOMENT OF BIRTH AND THEY SELL THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF COPIES.

JOHN QUINCY ADAMS, SECRETARY OF STATE, HAS A FAITHFUL FACSIMILE, THE ONE THAT YOU SEE OVER MY SHOULDER, IN THE MIDDLE THERE, REPRODUCED.

THE STONE ENGRAVING, TO MAKE IT THE ICONIC IMAGE, EVEN AS THE DOCUMENT ITSELF IS FADING , CAN AND THEN, VERY IMPORTANTLY ON JULY 4th, 1821, THE 45th ANNIVERSARY OF INDEPENDENCE, JOHN QUINCY ADAMS BRINGS THE ORIGINAL PARCHMENT TO THE CAPITOL, LEAVES IT IN FRONT OF A CROWD OF THOUSANDS.

HE GIVES HIS FAMOUS SPEECH.

PEOPLE DO NOT PAY ATTENTION TO THE FIRST TIME, AT A TRULY, YOU KNOW, SENIOR LEVEL, HIGH LEVEL, HE LINKS THE DECLARATION TO OUR CONSTITUTIONAL ORDER.

WHAT HAD BEEN FORGOTTEN, WHAT HAD BEEN SEEN SIMPLY AS A LEGAL DOCUMENT, AN INSTRUMENT ANNOUNCING OUR INDEPENDENCE, NOW BECOMES THE WELLSPRING OF OUR SELF UNDERSTANDING, AS A NATION THAT HAD, FIRST OF ALL, TRIUMPH AGAINST BRITAIN FOR THE SECOND TIME IN A GENERATION.

NOW, DRAMATICALLY GROWING AND EXPANDING ACROSS THE WEST.

THIS IS WHERE I THINK IT BEGINS TO TAKE ON THAT NEW LIFE.

THAT LIFE THAT, ULTIMATELY AS YOU MENTIONED BEFORE, REACHES ITS UP OFFICES WITH LINCOLN >> YOU TALK ABOUT THE 45th ANNIVERSARY, JOHN QUINCY ADAMS MAKING SORT OF A NATIONAL DOCUMENT.

WHAT REALLY AMUSES ME, PERHAPS SHOULDN'T, SUDDENLY THERE BECOMES TENSION BETWEEN JOHN QUINCY ADAMS, HIS FATHER, JOHN ADAMS IS STILL ALIVE, AND THOMAS JEFFERSON.

THEY END UP DYING ON THE SAME DAY, THE 50th ANNIVERSARY AND YET, THEY ARE DISPUTING BETWEEN THEM WHO WAS MORE IMPORTANT.

ADAMS , DIMINISHING WHAT JEFFERSON HAD DONE.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

AND I THINK THAT IS PRECISELY REVEALING OF HOW IMPORTANT THE DECLARATION HAD BECOME TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE BY THE FOURTH OR FIFTH DECADE OF OUR EXISTENCE.

WHAT HAD, AGAIN, BEEN SEEN AS SOMETHING THAT DID ITS JOB ON ONE DAY, JULY, 1776, NOW DEFINES US AS A PEOPLE AND THE GREATEST SENTENCE WAS BEGINNING TO GAIN PURCHASE.

NOT EVERYWHERE IN THE NATION, BUT IN MANY QUARTERS, TO SAY, THIS IS WHO WE ARE.

SUDDENLY, NOW, YOU HAVE JOHN ADAMS.

YOU HAVE TO BE DRAWN INTO THIS, BY THE ANTI-JEFFERSONIAN PICKERING , WHO SAYS, JEFFERSON DID NOT DO ANYTHING NEW.

JOHN ADAMS IS LIKE, NO, NOTHING THAT HAD NOT BEEN WRITTEN ABOUT FOR YEARS BEFORE.

IT IS A PRIVATE LETTER THAT BECOMES PUBLIC.

JEFFERSON FEELS HE HAS TO RESPOND IN A PRIVATE LETTER TO HIS ALLIES, INCLUDING JAMES MADISON.

HE WRITES, ADAMS IS RIGHT.

IT WAS NOT MY CHARGE TO COME UP WITH SOMETHING THAT HAD NEVER BEEN THOUGHT OR SAID BEFORE.

INSTEAD, IT WAS TO BE AN EXPRESSION OF THE AMERICAN MIND.

>> I LOVE THAT PHRASE, LET'S PAUSE ON IT.

WHY DID HE THE GUY WAS AN EXPRESSION OF THE AMERICAN MIND?

>> FIRST, IT WAS GENIUS TO DO SO.

IDIOTS WRITTEN SOMETHING NEW, JULY, 1776, EVERYONE WOULD HAVE UNDERSTOOD, IF YOU COULD TAKE WHAT AMERICANS HAD BEEN SAYING IN THEIR COLONIAL ASSEMBLY, WHERE THEY HAD BEEN HEARING FROM THE PULPIT , RABBLE-ROUSERS LIKE THOMAS PAINE AND SAM ADAMS HAD BEEN SAYING IN THE STREET, AND PUT IT INTO A DOCUMENT THAT SPOKE TO ALL AMERICANS, THAT WE WOULD TOUCH EVERYONE.

HE WOULD EXPRESS WHAT HAD BEEN THE MOTIVE IDEAS THAT HAD CARRIED US INTO THE REVOLUTION.

AND NOW, EVERYBODY SAID, 1776, CARRYING US THROUGH THE VERY FIRST DIFFICULT YEAR OF THE REVOLUTION.

SO, HE UNDERSTOOD, IT WAS NOT TO MAKE STUFF UP THAT NO ONE HAD EVER COME UP WITH, BUT IT WAS TO TAKE HIS OWN THOUGHTS ON THE CONSTITUTION FOR VIRGINIA.

IT WAS TO TAKE GEORGE MASON'S THOUGHTS ON A VIRGINIA BILL OF RIGHTS, WHICH HE SHORTENS TO LIFE, LIBERTY, AND THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS.

IT WAS TO TAKE JOHN ROCK'S THOUGHTS ON THE LIMITATIONS OF GOVERNMENT AND NATURAL RIGHTS.

IT WAS TO TAKE GOOGLE THOUGHT, THIS WAS A VERY PROTESTANT NATION.

PEOPLE WERE HEARING MORE ABOUT LIBERTY FROM THE PULPIT THAN ANYONE ELSE.

IT WAS TO TAKE THAT AND PUT INTO THIS DOCUMENT, AND THEN EXPRESS IT FOR EVERYONE, SO THAT HE COULD WRITE ABOUT AN ATROCITY THAT HAD HAPPENED.

LET'S SAY IN NEW HAMPSHIRE, BUT WRITE IT IN A WAY THAT SOMEONE IN GEORGIA WOULD UNDERSTAND AND FEEL THAT IT HAD HAPPENED TO THEM AS WELL.

AND THIS, LATER IN LIFE, IN THIS EXCHANGE OF LETTERS, HE ACKNOWLEDGES IT.

HE SAYS THIS WAS TO EXPRESS THE AMERICAN MIND.

AT THIS POINT, HE HAD UNDERSTOOD THAT HE HAD DONE SO IN A WAY THAT FITTED NOT JUST THE MOMENT, BUT AS LINCOLN WAS TO SAY, FITTED ALL TIME AND ALL PEOPLE.

>> THE MUSEUM AND CENTER OF FORMER PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA OPENED IN CHICAGO THIS PAST WEEK.

AND THE EXHIBIT BEGINS WITH THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE.

WHAT YOU MAKE OF THAT?

>> I HAVE NOT BEEN THERE YET, SINCE IT JUST OPENED.

IT IS PERFECTLY APPROPRIATE.

AND I THINK IT SHOULD, IN MANY WAYS .

AND, IN FACT, I THINK IT IS ACTUALLY SURPRISING THAT NO PRESIDENT, UNTIL PRESIDENT TRUMP, PUT A COPY IN THE OVAL OFFICE.

IT IS THAT BIRTHRIGHT THAT I THINK EVERY PRESIDENT, THEY SWEAR TO UPHOLD THE CONSTITUTION AND DEFEND THE CONSTITUTION.

BUT WHAT THEY ARE REALLY DOING IS DEFENDING THE SPIRIT OF THE DECLARATION, BECAUSE IT IS THE SPIRIT OF THE DECLARATION THAT INFUSES THE CONSTITUTION AND, OF COURSE, THE BILL OF RIGHTS.

I THINK IT WAS VERY WELL UNDERSTOOD AT THE TIME.

>> YOU HAVE A THEORY IN YOUR BOOK THAT I LOVE.

WHICH IS, THAT THE IMPORTANCE OF THE DECLARATION RISES OVER TIME, PARTLY BECAUSE OF IMMIGRATION AND THAT, IN SOME WAYS, THE FACT THAT WE HAVE BECOME A NATION OF DIVERSE NATION OF HERITAGE OF THE LAND, MAKES US A NATION BASED ON A CREED, WHICH MAKES THIS DECLARATION MORE IMPORTANT.

NOWADAYS, WE ARE KIND OF HAVING THIS DEBATE OVER WHETHER WE ARE A NATION BASED ON A CREED THAT WE ALL ACCEPT, OR ARE WE A NATION BASED ON LAND INHERITED .

HOW DO YOU SEE THE DECLARATION PLAYING INTO THAT?

>> ABSOLUTELY, IT IS OUR CREED.

I WOULD SAY THE CREED IS NOW OUR HERITAGE AND THAT IS THE WONDERFUL THING.

THE IMMIGRANT PART OF THE BOOK, POSSIBLY MY FAVORITE PART OF THE BOOK WAS TO SHOW HOW THE DECLARATION, TRANSLATIONS OF THE DECLARATION, IDEAS OF CIVICS, IT WAS NOT IMPOSED TOP DOWN BY THE MAYFLOWER COMMUNITY.

IT WAS EMBRACED BY THE IMMIGRANTS THEMSELVES, THEY ARE TRANSLATING IT INTO SWEDISH, INTEGRATE, INTO ITALIAN , INTO YIDDISH, IN THE POLISH, INTO RUSSIAN.

THEY ARE THE ONES DOING THE TRANSLATIONS FOR THEIR OWN COMMUNITIES TO SAY, YOU ARE NOW HERE.

AT THIS IS WHERE THOMAS PAINE WAS , THEY WERE CREATING IT FOR THEMSELVES.

YOU ARE AMERICANS, THIS IS YOUR BIRTHRIGHT AND YOU HAVE YOUR RESPONSIBILITIES.

DURING WORLD WAR I, YOU HAVE THIS WONDERFUL GATHERING OF BASICALLY IMMIGRANTS FROM THE DIFFERENT NATIONS CREATED A GROUP TO SUPPORT AMERICA IN THE WAR, PLEDGING THEMSELVES AS LOYAL AMERICANS SAYING THIS IS NOT OUR COUNTRY THOUGH THIS COUNTRY IS ENGAGED IN A WAR IN THE OLD WORLD WHICH WE JUST LEFT.

WE, THE REPRESENTATIVES OF THE OLD NATIONS ARE NOW AMERICANS.

AND WE HAVE OUR RIGHTS AND WE HAVE OUR RESPONSIBILITIES TO UPHOLD THIS CREED.

TO DEFEND THE DEMOCRACY, TO DEFEND THE IDEA, IN THE OLD BY WHO YOU WERE, WHERE YOU WERE BORN, AND THE LITTLE TOWN OR VILLAGE THAT YOU CAME FROM, NOT HERE.

HERE, YOU ARE PART OF THIS GREAT MAINSTREAM, WHAT JAMES TRESSLER ADAMS WOULD CALL THAT AMERICAN DREAM IN 1931.

IN THIS PERIOD WHERE THE COUNTRY HAD BEEN RADICALLY -- DRAMATICALLY CHANGED WITH IMMIGRATION, FROM 1880 TO 1920, AND THE FOREIGN-BORN POPULATION BEING AT LEAST 15%.

IN SOME PLACES LIKE CINCINNATI, IT IS UPWARDS OF 60%.

GERMAN IMMIGRANTS AND OTHER IMMIGRANTS FROM CENTRAL EUROPE.

THEY ARE EMBRACING , TRANSLATING THESE COPIES OF THE DECLARATION, PUTTING IT UP ON THEIR WALLS.

THERE IS A HUNGARIAN TRAVELER GOES TO THE UNITED STATES IN THE 1830s AND HE SAID, I NEVER WENT TO AN IN, INSIDE OF AMERICA, WHAT I DID NOT SEE A DECLARATION ON THE WALL.

STATEMENT OF WHO WE WERE IN A CIVIC POLITY AND THE IMMIGRANTS ADOPTED IT AS MUCH, IF NOT MORE, AS SOME WOULD CALL TODAY THE HERITAGE AMERICANS.

THAT CREED HAS BECOME OUR HERITAGE.

IT IS WHY EACH OF US STILL, I FEEL, YOU KNOW, SHOULD PLEDGE TO EACH OTHER OUR LIVES AND SACRED HONOR IN THIS COMMUNITY.

WE LIVE HERE TOGETHER.

MICHAEL AUSLIN, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU WALTER