- [Announcer] "Montana Ag Live" is made possible by the Montana Department of Agriculture, (bright music) MSU Extension, (bright music) the MSU Ag Experiment Station of the College of Agriculture, (bright music) the Montana Wheat & Barley Committee, (bright music) Cashman Nursery and Landscaping, (bright music) and the Gallatin Gardeners Club.

(bright music) - You are tuned to "Montana Ag Live," originating today for the studios of KUSM on the very exciting campus of Montana State University, and coming to you over your Montana Public Television System.

I'm Jack Riesselman, a retired professor of plant pathology, happen to be your host this evening.

Those of you who have watched the program in the past know how it works.

You provide the questions and we provide the answers, or in some cases the best guess, but we try our best.

And if we can't answer tonight, we'll get to it next week with the correct answers.

I will say this, this program can get pretty boring without your questions, so if you don't supply the questions, we're gonna sit here like duncy, which sometimes we're accredited with being.

But anyway, get those questions in.

The more questions we have, the faster this program goes and the more we learn.

And comments.

If you have comments, please feel free to enclose those with the phone operators, I'll introduce in a moment.

Let me introduce tonight's guest, Uta McKelvy, Uta is an extension plant pathologist.

She's been here about two years now in this position.

She's been here on the program many, many times.

Jane Worley.

Jane is our special guest tonight, and we're gonna learn a lot about the 4-H Foundation.

The 4-H Foundation is one of the best organizations that we have here in the State of Montana.

They provide funds for various undergrad, well, young students, I believe, up to 18 years old.

We're gonna learn about that and learn what you could possibly do to help the 4-H Foundation.

Erika Rodbell, has been here a couple times.

She's answered the phone before.

She's an interim entomologist, extension entomologist.

Last time she was here she was a graduate student, so she's moved up in the world, not against the grad students.

I'm not picking on you.

(Erika laughs) but Erika, we're glad to have you here.

And, of course, Abi Saed.

And Abi is our extension horticultural specialist.

And answering the phone tonight is Amber Graham and Cheryl Bennett.

So that phone's not ringing yet.

Let's get on, and the number will be up there in a couple seconds.

Jane, 4-H Foundation, I've heard a lot about it.

Tell us what you do and what the foundation does.

- Well, Jack, the 4-H Foundation, 4-H program is multifaceted, of course.

And so there are county level programs and statewide programs.

The 4-H Foundation helps raise the funds and manage the funds that are donated to help support the program all across the state.

And so we pledge $150,000 to the program operation budget of the Montana 4-H Center that makes 4-H able to happen in the way that we know it today across this state.

- I wasn't in 4-H when I was a kid.

I lived on a farm, but I was more interested in hunting fishing than 4-H.

But I've taken a liking to it, and I just wanna show this picture here.

This is a Gallatin County 4-H brochure that came out in the Bozeman Chronicle, and it illustrates all the activities and the prizes that went on at the county fair here in Gallatin County.

Every county has that.

This is incredible.

This is what 4-H does.

And how many kids are involved with 4-H in the state?

- Well, in the State of Montana, we have about 17,000 youth across the state who are affected by the program, enrolled members in traditional clubs.

What many people might think of as traditional 4-H are around 9,00 4-H members across the state.

So quite a few.

And, you know, we do have an outdoor education program so that wildlife and hunting, there'd be lots of opportunity for youth today to be involved in 4-H in that way as well as STEM projects and so many other ways so.

- Back when I was a youngster, which is a few years ago, things were a little different.

We didn't have outdoor 4-H programs.

I'll tell you how that much has changed.

I used to drop my sister off at school at eight o'clock for bed, and I'd hunt pheasants for the next hour, and then I'd take the gun into the industrial arts and clean it.

Try to do that today.

Times have changed, but thank you for that information.

(Jane laughs) Let's move on a little bit.

I have a question here for Uta, and this came in over the internet.

People sent photos in of a tree, I think it's fire blight, but they would like to know what is wrong with this specific tree?

And if you get those photos up on the screen here in a moment, tell us a little bit about fire blight and how you manage it.

- Yeah, so fire blight is a common disease that we see around town and other places in Montana.

It's a bacterial disease that affects plants in the Rosaceae family.

So apple, crab apple, pears, et cetera.

And so actually, yeah, so the picture we're seeing that could be fire blight.

So we're seeing like branches and twigs where the leaves are brown, scorched, wilted.

And then also that the end of the branches are kind of bending like a shepherd's crook.

So those are some characteristic symptoms of fire blight.

So it's a bacterial disease.

The infection happens in the spring via the flowers.

Insects can transmit these bacterial pathogens and it can also be a rain splash.

But if we're not careful with, for example, pruning our trees, that's the way to spread this pathogen too.

So at this time in the year, probably, the best thing somebody can do that has fire blight is, I would say wait a couple more weeks until we're in the dormant season, and then focus on pruning out those affected branches a few inches, I think eight to 10 inches underneath the diseased area to really make sure we're getting all of the diseased plant tissue out.

The leaves are probably not dropping from those infected branches, but I would also rake up all the leaves that are underneath the tree and dispose of them, 'cause that's where the pathogen could.

Over winter, and then it would be very good idea to sanitize the pruning equipment with rubbing alcohol are similar to prevent the spread that way.

You have anything to add, Abi?

- Yeah, like I would say one of the things, because you were recommending dormant season is to flag the branches.

- That's a great idea.

Yeah.

- Fire blight.

So you know which ones you wanna remove.

- The leaves have a tendency to stay on- - Yeah.

- A little longer when they die from fire blight.

- Yeah.

- So it is pretty simple to prune it.

- Yeah.

- One thing I want mentioned, I had three crab apple trees many years ago, and my neighbor put in an underground sprinkler system that allowed them to get wet every day and they lasted about one year for fire blight.

- Yeah.

- So watch overhead irrigation is very critical.

- Yeah.

- Question from Valentine.

Yeah, this person would like to know where the funding comes from for the 4-H Foundation.

- Oh, we are so fortunate at the 4-H Foundation, our funding comes from all kinds of places.

It's generous benefactors mostly.

We have, sometimes people will leave an endowment to us to help fund things 4-four H across the state.

We have yearly donors, we have a 4-H alum who reached out, and because the program has been so impactful to her, she asked if we would invoice her monthly, so she wouldn't miss a month while she builds an endowment to support national travel for 4-H youth, because that's one of the things that we do is provide that.

So the funding comes from all kinds of sources, from corporate sponsorships to individuals sending a check every year, or reoccurring donations that are through our website.

So lots of different places.

- So say, you're in Saunders County or in Blaine County, and how do you allocate the foundation funds to those programs?

Do the county 4-H agents actually apply Or is it automatically given to separate programs?

- [Jane] So the funding is very interesting.

We don't directly give necessarily to a county 4-H program in that way, but we support all of the program efforts from the program specialists in the 4-H Center, which in turn makes 4-H be able to exist across the state.

We also have a couple of endowments that support programming out, and I love this, 'cause there's one called the People Partner Grant.

And the funding from that allows youth to apply when they see a problem in their community- - I like that.

- That they think they have a solution for.

And there's always going to be a little bit of expense to that.

So they can apply for funding through the Montana 4-H Foundation.

They can get that experience of solving the problems they see right in their own communities, and it's phenomenal.

So we have all kinds of different ways that youth are affected.

And then, of course, the statewide leadership programs like Montana 4-H Congress, many people would recognize that as one of our premier programs.

- I like that problem solving.

I think that's a great program.

I think we ought to promote that a little bit more, but that's my own personal opinion.

From Bozeman.

They remember when Erika was on talking about alfalfa weevil and insecticide resistance when she was working on her doctorate.

They would like to know the results of that.

And that's interesting because we're growing more and more alfalfa here in into Gallatin County and statewide.

I mean, it's unbelievable the amount of alfalfa that's started to be growing the last few years.

Weevil still on the issue?

- Oh, yeah, absolutely.

The results of the project illustrated that all of the pyrethroids that are registered for the control of alfalfa weevils in forage alfalfa systems are ineffective if you develop resistance to them.

And that, of course, comes from applying the same product over and over and over again.

Now what we did find is that once you pull back from using pyrethroids for about four years, if you switch over to a different mode of action group altogether, you can regain the efficacy of those pyrethroids again.

So it's not a doom and gloom one and done, it's give it time, take a breather, pay a bit more for another insecticide on the market and then revisit it, check back in.

You'll see regained efficacy there.

- So if you have a serious alfalfa weevil problem and a lot of producers do, and you don't control 'em.

What is the economic loss to say a crop or an acre of alfalfa?

How much can the weevil destroy?

- I've seen 100% yield loss in a dry land production system.

So the alfalfa can regain biomass really quickly.

With irrigation, they have a little bit more of a fighting chance.

And, of course, it depends on the degree of the infestation.

So just because you have alfalfa weevil doesn't automatically mean that you're looking at a substantial loss.

If you have around an average of 10 alfalfa weevils per sweep of a sweep net or two to three alfalfa weevils per stem, that's the economic threshold.

That's when you're running into that economic burden of loss, yeah.

- Okay, thank you.

- So if you're switching to, you know, a different mode of action, would you recommend like within that four year period, also switching that around, so not using the same product that whole time?

- The integrated resistance management idea of how to combat this issue is to rotate the mode of action group, or at least rotate your method of management so that you don't repeat it every once every three years is kind of the maximum.

So when you're dealing with resistance, your ability to combat those populations is obviously restricted.

So it's not like we have a never ending pile of insecticides at our disposal.

We're very much limited in what we can and cannot do.

So what a rancher in Big Horn County, Montana did per our recommendation was to spray Steward EC the active ingredient of which is indoxacarb, it's mode of action Group 22A.

And he used that for four years straight, and he had extreme resistance the first year and then the fourth year, he was back to normal levels.

So that's what he did.

It worked well for him, but it's very costly.

Steward is about six times more expensive than pyrethroids because it's not generic.

Pyrethroids are.

There's a variety of factors at play that can feed into a decision.

- Okay, yeah.

- Can I throw in another question?

So Erika, if a grower had a pyrethroid resistance in the alfalfa weevils population, and then they stopped using that insecticide and wanted to do after like reintroduce it after three years, do you have a recommendation how they should apply it?

Like should they just spray and see how many weevils are left after, do a trial strip maybe?

Do you have a recommendation for that?

- I always recommend that folks test the waters before diving headlong into it because the last thing you want to do is spray something and hope that it works, and put all your eggs in one basket.

If you know that indoxacarb is working for you and has consistently over the past three to four years, you can do a trial.

And I've done many or helped with many from Arizona, Oregon, Washington, and Montana.

So it's easily done.

Farmers know, ranchers know what works for them, and I strongly encourage that if you have this problem or have had this problem in the past, try dabbling.

- Okay.

- Play around with it.

- Let's change the tune a little bit here.

And this caller from Billings has deer eating the bark off his immature aspen trees.

What can be done to stop this?

The hunting season starts in about three weeks.

(panel laughs) - Yeah, no, but yeah, this is timely, and good to kind of protect, especially young trees, thin barked trees.

It's a good idea to use any sort of tree guard.

You can get those tree guard that look like little netting.

You can also get those corrugated plastic white ones that can help protect from sun scald in the winter too.

So some sort of a physical barrier or a fence that's gonna keep them away from that main bark, you're gonna need some sort of a physical barrier.

- A barking dog works good too.

- Yeah, that's right.

- Oh, yes.

- A dog on duty.

- Yes, absolutely.

Back to Jane, from Billings.

This person would like to know, are there any specific programs or goals that the foundation is starting to look at or they'd like to invest in?

- Well, we want to, of course, maintain what we have, but a goal that I've had is looking at our program specialist area.

The Outdoor Ed Program that I mentioned earlier.

We have a less than part-time program specialist for that.

And the 4-H foundation is covering the entirety of that position right now.

And if we look at the numbers of our enrollment, more than half of the youth are enrolled in outdoor ed types of programming from wildlife to fishing.

We have a shooting sports program, archery, all those different programs.

And it's been a hugely impactful program across the state.

So the numbers would lead us to think that that would be a great program to gain support for.

Plus, as I drove down here today, we are an outdoor state.

We have a lot of enthusiasts about our state.

And so there may be somebody out there who just doesn't know, hasn't been invited yet to help fund that program, whether that's through an endowment for that position, or if that's helping support that $33,000 that we, through the foundation put toward that program.

But our students have gone on, we had an Olympian this year.

We've had several Olympians come out of that shooting sports program.

I know people who have had full ride because of it.

They become those people who catapult into the careers of wildlife management, and they go on to serve in the military and are part of our law enforcement.

And so this is a great program that I just think there's somebody out there knows somebody that we need to get introduced to who has a passion around that and can support it.

- Yeah, we had the 4-H director on a year or two ago, and at that time post-COVID, we were short of leaders countywide 4-H leaders.

And I know student numbers are staying up there, but have the leaders numbers improved and say, if I wanted to be a leader, which I'm too old to do that, but- - You are not.

(Jack and Jane laughs) - I shouldn't have said that.

(panel laughs) How would you become a 4-H leader?

- The best place to start is going to your local MSU Extension Office, and talking to them about how you want to be involved in many different things.

And I would love to tell you that we have volunteers who are in their 90s, and who are gaining as much from the program as the youth are from them.

So it is never too late to give back in whatever capacity you have the capability to give.

So I would really encourage people for that volunteer piece because one of the things we know in terms of protecting our youth is a meaningful relationship with another caring adult in their lives can be powerfully influential.

- Thank you.

Okay, last week, we had a sample of tomato come in, and Dave Baumbauer was wrong, but I have to admit I agreed with him too.

(Abi laughs) We thought it was insect damage.

They came from Deborah Schultz, I believe up at Columbia Falls.

So we're gonna revisit that a little bit tonight, and then show you how I was wrong and you're just gonna tell us why it was wrong.

- Yeah, well first of all, Jack, that's big of you to say.

(panel laughs) So kudos, (panel laughs) I'm coming in here at the tail end of this adventure, and I get to resolve this whole problem.

So this is actually this tomato here kind of rotten at this point.

The tomato that was sent as a picture last week.

And so it came to the diagnostic lab, and we did our due diligence diagnosing what was going on.

I personally thought it was a bacterial issue.

So we tested for that and it's not either.

So we came out with a diagnosis that this is actually a genetic disorder.

It's called fruit pox.

And genetic disorders generally are not super common in tomatoes, because they're weeded out in the breeding program.

But of the genetic disorders, this is a more common one.

And so you might have thought this might be an insect issue because of these lesions, but really what distinguishes it from insect feeding issues that we see these lesions on the shoulder area of the tomato, not all over the fruit, which Jack, you pointed out correctly that, I guess thrips are not that selective in where they're feeding.

So there's not a lot you can do about it.

- It doesn't burn the damage.

- I mean, doesn't look pretty, but it's not a big issue.

- Yeah, if we can have a picture of that, I don't know if we still have a picture from last week that shows what the spotting looked like.

Yeah, there it is.

- There it is, yeah.

- You know, genetics are really interesting because I have to admit, if that had been all over the tomato, I would've said thrift.

But if I'd have seen the tomato in person, I probably would've said something else.

But I am probably coming.

(panel laughs) - Thanks (faintly speaking).

(panel laughs) - Yeah, I gotta back up once in a while.

(panel laughs) I wanna show these two tomatoes, and this is what genetic breeding can do for tomatoes.

Now they look like green tomatoes that have a virus, but instead this is a variety called Green Zebra.

And I've actually tasted this, and Mac Burgess has this at the garden, the MSU garden, they're actually very tasty tomato, a little bit more acidic than some people may like, but that's genetics.

And if I didn't know that was a variety, I'd have probably called that virus infection.

So I've been wrong just once.

- On this genetic problem, is that still an edible tomato?

- So I mean other than it not looking very appealing, and I'll say the wrinkling is not because of the fruit pox, that's just time doing its thing on tomatoes.

But generally like you can eat it.

It doesn't look yummy, but there's nothing wrong with this tomato really.

- Sauces, canning, there's something.

- Yeah, yeah.

- All kinds things.

- Away goes the problem.

- That one might not be very good in its current condition.

- Yeah.

- Anymore, yes.

But, you know, on Friday it looked a lot better, so I would've eaten it.

Well, no, I don't eat samples that come in a dike.

(panel laughs) - That's where I differ from you.

- You're a brave man.

(laughs) - Alright, let's move over to Abi for a quick one here.

This person got as a gift, one of those pottered roses, little miniature rose.

And they wanna know if they put it out in the field, or in their garden, will survive the winter?

- That's such a hard question without knowing the type of rose it is.

So I would say for that one, you can contact me, or your local extension office if you have this tag that came with it, that'll tell you what kind it is, it'll tell you how hardy it will be.

But roses in general.

Some of our native varieties do really well, but some of the ornamental varieties that look really pretty in those pots usually won't survive winters here.

- They're lucky to survive in the pots, very long.

- Yes, yes.

- So I wouldn't waste my time.

- No.

- Is it late summer or fall a good time anyway to transplant into the garden?

- Fall is a good time usually.

So depending, yes, spring and fall are the best times to plant things, and there are pros and cons for each of those.

But fall, especially after plants go dormant, that's one of the best, because the soil is still workable, and you're not stressing out that root system very much.

So adding enough moisture when you do that gives them a headstart in the spring, whereas if you plant in the spring, you're heading into those hot summer months, which could be stressful, but there are pros and cons for each.

- I throw 'em away after they bloom, (Abi laughs) and nobody gives me roses so I don't have to worry about it.

(panel laughs) Facebook question from Beth.

They have a small vegetable garden, 10 by 12 inches inside.

They dug our potatoes, and they had many chucks taken outta their potatoes.

I'm not sure what a chuck is.

Not to mention what I believe to be grubs, big white grubs an inch long, well, they feed on potatoes.

I didn't know we had the big white grubs here.

I know we had 'em in Billings, but Missoula.

- Yeah.

- Big white grubs can be a problem, especially in the fall.

It's generally when you'll see some serious root damage, not just for potatoes but for grasses as well, because it's when they start to feed.

Sometimes, especially for big white grubs, they tend to spend a significant portion of their early life cycle in the soil and then they emerge as adults.

So they're probably packing on the pounds before the winter comes.

- So they're basically June beetle larvae, correct?

- Yep, yep, that's correct.

- And this is new to me, and she said they are seeing June beetles up until this call in, and thank you for that.

I only thought they were in Billings.

Now they're in what?

They're all over.

- No, no, we have June beetles all over the state- - Over the state.

- But the Japanese beetles are only in billings.

- Yeah.

- Okay, so the warmer temperatures allow that to happen here.

- Yeah, and also a lot of these white grub beetle larvae species, they're native to the state, and so they're often decomposers and usually don't do very much plant damage except for those Japanese beetle larvae.

But yeah, where they're, I think getting ready to over winter, they're gonna be going for any kind of source of food.

- I think, I've never seen June beetles here in Montana.

- I have.

- Where would I look for them?

- At night, at lights midsummer.

- See I go together.

- By the way.

(panel laughs) Before I became a fly fisherman.

Those big white grubs on a fish hook are devastating for trout.

So that's a good way to use 'em up.

(panel laughs) But now that I fly fish and forgot about night crawlers and June beetle larvae, I've changed.

This is a good question.

Caller from Fairfield, actually has two questions.

Can Jane talk about how 4-H helps or use in career opportunities?

And I guarantee you it does, so you wanna touch on that?

- Well, certainly.

I was an extension agent for more than 25 years in Montana and in Wyoming a few years.

And before that I was a school counselor.

So I have been long interested in how people get to the careers that they get to.

And I think you'd be hard pressed to ask a 4-H alum in their current career to find out if they're not using any skills that they learned in 4-H. Because I think so many 4-H members, this is how they find their spark.

This is how they move into their career, this is how they try out things that maybe aren't available to them in school.

And I think of the, we talk about the spark for youth.

I just have visited with a couple of 4-H alum who made their way through college on a 4-H photography project.

So they've built a 4-H photography business.

And I visited with a volunteer the other day who has built an entire cottage food industry business.

And she said, "It's because of 4-H that I was able to do this."

And I said, "But you weren't even a member of 4-H." She said, "I know I joined as a parent and volunteer when my kids started," and she learned how to do food demonstrations and different things and has a thriving business now because of it.

So I just know over the years, the 4-H alum who I've worked with, they're back in my community serving in so many capacities that I can tie right to 4-H. - You know, I'm gonna mention a previous program we had when our extension plant pathologist was on and her daughter was on that night, and she brought a rabbit along and that rabbit sat at the end of that desk for the entire program.

We had more calls for the 11-year-old guests than we had for anybody else on the panel, and she was so articulate in answering them, and that sold me right there on 4-H.

It is a really great program for youngsters.

- Well, I think of our 4-H Fair format and you brought the pamphlet from Gallatin County, but our 4-H Fairs use an interview format.

So students have to come in, 4-H members come in with a project that they've done and they speak to somebody they don't know and they identify what they've done well, what they could have done better, how they got help, what they do next time.

And think of the skills in interviewing with a potential employer when you can evaluate that for yourself.

I know what my strengths are, I know where I need to make improvements.

Employers tell me all the time when they have 4-H members interview, they can tell it right away that they had that skill.

And I think it's so important to help youth explore and find new areas of interest so that they can move into careers.

- That's a good reason to support the 4-H Foundation.

There's no doubt about that.

And we'll get into if, and we're not begging for dollars here, but we will tell people later on if they wanna support the 4-H Foundation, how that can go on.

- So speaking of daughters, what's the youngest age you can enroll youth in a 4-H program?

- So our Cloverbuds program is ages five to eight.

October 1st is the age break there, and then the 4-H program is eight to 18 by October 1st.

And so we're moving into that time of year.

Do you have one that can enroll yet?

- We have to wait a few more years.

(Jane laughs) - I thought maybe, (Uta laughs) I thought I'd picked up on that and my- - Start 'em early.

- Yeah.

- And mine are moving into their college and career years, so yeah.

- Okay, so I'm gonna do a little promotion for the "Montana Ag Live" newsletter.

We had a coffee in the department the other day as Department of Plant Pathology and Plant Sciences.

And a young lady, a young student by the name of Sophia Lotties brought in huckleberry cheese, not cheesecake, coffee cake.

And it was incredible.

And the recipe came from her and Katie at the Kitchen Door, but I'm gonna give this recipe to Paul, and he's gonna get it in the newsletter.

So if you want a copy of this recipe, and I guarantee you if you have huckleberry, you know, pancakes are good, muffins are good, but nothing's gonna be a huckleberry coffee cake.

It's wonderful.

So sign up for the Ag Live newsletter and you will get this recipe in the next edition.

Valentine.

This is interesting.

Two questions.

One for Uta.

They have more corn smut is sweet corn than normal.

Is this weather related?

They may have had a hail.

- It could be, yeah.

Yeah, exactly like you say Jack.

So wounds inflicted on plant tissue can just help that corn smut pathogen get into its host and establish, but even without wounds, that's possible.

If they're growing corn, if they're corn smut, if they're growing sweet corn or other corns like every year or in close rotation, those spores.

Okay, so for those of you who don't know this, the corn smut, it produces these like really swollen galls that are often on the corn ears and then they're filled with spores.

So when the galls rupture, these spores are released and so these spores can live in the soil for several years.

And so if we keep rotating corn, we kind of perpetuate that disease.

And so frequently growing corn and a gardener in a field can help with that.

- And I'd like to add that corn smut is actually really delicious.

So if you haven't tried, it's like the texture of like a mushroom and you can saute it in some butter.

It's actually a really tasty food, and it's eaten in a lot of places in the world.

So that could be a way of a silver lining, maybe a glass half full.

You now growing some delicious- - Before it's mature when it's younger.

- Umami flavor.

- Yeah, when it's yeah, smaller, yeah, younger.

And it has that- - Yeah.

- Yummy umami flavor.

- You gotta catch it really early.

- Yeah.

- Maybe you can put the recipe in the newsletter.

(panel laughs) - I think there are a variety, but maybe I'll find my favorite corn smut recipe.

- Okay, I'll make one on that.

Then I'm gonna move to fleeted question, but I bought canned corn smut one time in Arizona.

- Wow.

- And I disagree with you.

- You didn't like it?

- No, I didn't.

- Oh!

- It was mushy and not very tasty at all.

- Maybe that's the canning problem.

- Maybe fresh and butter.

- Maybe fresh, sauteed and butter.

- Yeah, okay, but canned, no.

(Uta laughs) And also from Valentine, and Erika, this is your bailiwick.

The caller deals with a lot of flea beetles.

Is that because of the weather?

And here, I have one more comment.

He has been watching for years, and has asked for more poultry panelists in the future.

And unfortunately, MSU does not have a poultry scientist.

But I tell you what, I'll see if I can't find somebody maybe in the 4-H arena to talk about poultry in the future.

So flea beetles, I'm not sure on what crop.

- I wish I knew on which crop because that would be really insightful.

They can and do readily feed on canola if I'm assuming that it may be canola that they're referring to.

But I could be wrong.

I actually published a Montana Ag Alert on flea beetle management on canola.

But much of what that article describes can be utilized for other field crops as well.

Look it up, it's online.

I'd look up Ag Alert and you can do the archive search, and you will find flea beetle information there.

- And in a home garden setting, I've seen kind of just like any inside populations you see fluctuating population sizes.

And this year, I've had a lot of people comment that they've had more flea beetle damage in their home vegetable gardens, like on their eggplant, broccoli, things like that.

So I think the seasonal variability, it's a pretty common part of insect life cycles.

- Absolutely.

- So as long as we're on insects, my wife tried to plant some ornamental cabbage this year, and these things are not cheap when you buy 'em from lawn and garden center.

And if I could pull up the photo of my ornamental cabbage that occurred after about three days sitting on the back deck, (Abi laughs) you can tell me what happened to 'em, or Erika can.

There's my ornamental cabbage, or my wife's ornamental cabbage.

- [Erika] Oh, no.

- [Jack] They didn't last long.

I can tell you what happened.

There were hundreds of little green worms.

In three days, they defoliated that.

- Wow.

- Now my question is if I have broccoli, cauliflower in the garden, I do get a few cabbage worms.

There's no doubt about it.

But nothing like this.

So if I want to keep the cabbage worms out of my broccoli, Brussels sprouts, should I plant these as what attract it?

- That's an expensive (panel laughs) for sure, yeah.

But yeah, people use trap crops in home gardens often and this is an expensive version.

But for this kind of issue too, I would say one of my most effective strategies for caterpillar pests of cabbage is usually using a netting or a cover, row cover of some sort.

Because by the time, as you can see in the picture, by the time they get there within a couple of days, they've done a catastrophic amount of damage.

- Yeah, they were hungry.

No doubt about it.

Jane.

Facebook comment, my kids are 4-H alumni.

How can they or current members support the ongoing work of the foundation?

Here's an opportunity to tell people how they can support the foundation.

- Well, it's wonderful that alum think about that.

And we do have many of our supporters, our 4-H alum.

But if you think about how many people have been in 4-H over the years and who are donating, I think we have a lot of room to grow in terms of that.

So people who want to donate can go to our website.

They can set up a recurring electronic donation, they can send a check to the Montana 4-H Foundation.

They'll find our address online, and then they'll start receiving some of our information and continue that way.

And like I mentioned, if they want to start building towards something that's important to them, we are happy to invoice or help them in any way with that.

But also I think many of our ag producers are 4-H alum.

- True.

- And I was thinking about one of the donors to our program was a farmer, a couple who farmed on the highline and did not have any errors.

And so they decided to give their farm the lease money off their farm comes to us, and they separated that into several different charitable organizations.

So I think there are many ways, maybe not all of our alum this color may have younger alum, and they're just starting in a career and wanting to get started.

If they could give $4 a week, $40 a month, $400 a year, if people who are older and conceivably maybe have built a little bit more to be able to give than they can generously give 404,000.

But some of our ag families could be thinking about ways that they can manage an estate, especially, if they don't have errors.

I think about if you don't have anyone to leave it to and you wanna leave it to young people wouldn't for HB enhance.

- Yeah, I agree.

- Sounds like should- - It's such a great program.

- Work with Marsha Goetting on that.

- We and Marsha Goetting is on our board.

- Oh, great.

- So if people do want us to come talk to them, if they're thinking about it, and there's no hard sell or hard pressure or anything, but if they are considering an estate plan that includes 4-H, I would love to get around the kitchen table with them and talk about what that could do for our program in perpetuity.

- Okay, seeing what 4-H has done, I encourage people, and no gift is too small.

- No.

- So I like that.

Back to the rose bushes.

Chester comment, she said, you can keep them alive until it's time to pop them out after the winter.

Just keep them wet and they like sun, but if you keep 'em too wet they drown.

- Yeah.

- Yeah.

- So it is really touchy, and if you want to grow roses, buy some roses that are adapted for this state.

- Yeah, and we do have some varieties that are much better.

- Okay, so we're gonna change the tune and go back to Erika a little bit.

So this past summer, I broke my cardinal rule.

I say don't leave Montana in the summertime, but for whatever reason, (Erika laughs) I was out of the state more, and I wanted to be this past summer, but I was in Denver, and stayed at a Renaissance Hotel and I get to my door and here's this note, plastic line on the door saying, "Miller Moth Migration."

So I opened the door to the Renaissance, and three or four of 'em came out in the hallway.

So obviously, people were complaining.

We did not have as many this year did we?

- No, we did not, but that's okay.

I mean it's part of the, (panel laughs) they're home invaders, which is why they had the signs up, or at least they can be.

And as they are moths, of course, they pollinate at night, which is really important.

So you shouldn't, or you can if you want to, but I am not encouraging you to do so.

Please don't kill them.

They're doing a great ecosystem service for us.

But you can, if you wanna make sure that they don't enter your home, or they don't bother you, you have to make sure that your garage doors are sealed.

Make sure that your front door is sealed as well, because they're pollinating at night, when the sun comes up, they're looking for a dark place to pass the day.

So a tight, dark spot, just like underneath your door really is where they like to be.

And so that's how they get into your home is that they're desperately searching for a spot to spend their day.

They go through two migrations, in the spring or late spring, early June.

And they also have another one in the fall, early fall, which is happening right now.

But there's a big summer die off as well.

So the full migration that we're experiencing, it's shorter in regard to the number of weeks, but you have a fewer number coming over or moving back into the Midwest, which is.

- A lot of people don't realize that the Miller moths are a preferred food for grizzly bears, and they migrate to the mountains and they're kinda like monarch butterflies in Mexico.

They congregate and bears love 'em.

There's good protein for 'em.

So just thought I'd mention that.

Okay.

- Good to a note.

- So do we know why there were fewer moths this year?

- Pardon?

- Do we know why there were fewer moths this year?

- I don't know.

I assume, a lot of 'em are army worm, and there's several different kinds of Miller moths.

But the most common one I think is the army worm adult, and the years where the army worm is down, we may not have as many of them.

I have plenty, believe me.

(panel laughs) You know vacuum sweeper.

I know I'm not supposed to do that, right?

Am I supposed to chase 'em outside?

- Chase them outside?

- Okay.

- Much like you do with spiders.

(panel laughs) - You may.

(panel laughs) It depends on who's around.

Okay, let me see what else has come in here.

Abi, caller is asking about her tomatoes that are red ripe but there's a hard green layer underneath.

Any idea what might cause that?

I'm not sure.

- Hmm, it'd be nice to have a picture of that 'cause I'm trying to think about what they mean by underneath.

Whether it's the skin that's tough and has a green layer underneath the skin or if the lower part of the tomatoes are green.

A lot of physiological water related issues can cause different textures in the skin of tomatoes, and can also sometimes cause issues cat facing where you'll see cracks and zippering and different abnormalities.

So that would be a nice one maybe to contact your local extension office, or send a photo to the Schutter Diagnostic Lab to see what.

- You see what tomatoes do when we get 'em, they get all kinds of, and of course, everybody in Montana loves to grow tomatoes because it used to be a real challenge.

It's not quite as challenging to date.

But yeah, I'd like to see that myself because I make a guess again but I'd be wrong.

So I'll wait till I see 'em.

(Abi laughs) - Yeah, maybe send it, send it to the Schutter Lab, and we can probably talk- - Yeah.

- About it next week.

- Okay, from Three Forks, for Uta, they're growing triticale for the first time and you might mention what triticale is.

But they wanna know, does it get ergot, or ergot is kind of a issue with a lot of grains?

- I believe it can.

- Yeah.

- And yep, so there is your answer it can, but (laughs) what favors ergot production is, let's see, if you have had ergot before, often it's actually in the grasses, like if there was a pasture nearby or the grassy etches around the field, those grasses can get the ergot too, and then the pathogen spreads from there.

So kind of mowing and maintaining those field etches, and before the grasses flour would be a good way to reduce the risk of getting that ergot problem in your crop.

And many probably know, but ergot is kind of a concern because it can cause some issues in livestock when they feed ergot contaminated grain.

And it's probably not too good for human consumption either at certain levels.

So that's why we wanna manage that.

- Yeah, if you have quite a bit of it in the grain, you probably should be cautious in feeding it to cattle because I think it's 0.3% by weight, which is toxic.

- I'm not sure about the threshold, but yeah, it can cause- - Abortion.

- Abortions and some blood circulation issues, yeah.

- Okay, question from Foresight, and it's an interesting question.

I don't know the answer to this.

I'm not sure if anybody on the panel can answer this, but this person says I'm impressed with 4-H.

I'd like to know when it started and where it started.

So Jane, anybody know?

I do not.

- So I believe that 4-H started in 1902 roughly, as far as the formal youth programs, and in Ohio area.

In Montana, we celebrated the hundredth year of 4-H in Montana in 2012.

So we're well past our hundredth year.

So 4-H was started around 1912 in this state.

And it's always been tied to the land grant university, and the extension programs in those different states.

- Yeah, it's been around for a long time and when they instituted this, it didn't take long to take off.

I mean I go back many years, and even back then they tried to get me into 4-H, I didn't have time.

There was other things like pheasant hunting and catfishing that was more important.

- I would like to mention again, (panel laughs) we have lots of programs in our outdoor ed program is really great that for those who have a really in different interest, there is a design your own program.

So it used to be called Self-Determined now, it's called Design Your Own.

And what a great way to encourage young people to be self-learners and self-educators then to set their own goals for their project and to look into their own research.

And then I had a 4-H member who had a self-determined project with violin because he was a violinist.

And then he set all these goals with that, and he did a 4-H demonstration, went to Montana 4-H Congress with that, finished in the top 10 as far as I remember, might have gone on to National 4-H Congress with that very project, so.

- Amazing - Design your own.

- A really basic question- - Yes.

- I should have asked at the beginning, what does 4-H stand for?

The 4-H are head, heart, hands, and health.

- Okay, okay.

- It's part of our pledge.

- Yeah.

- And the end of that pledge is for our club, for our community, for our country, and for our world.

And so we repeat that at every 4-H event.

And I hope, and I see the evidence that that sinks in, that our members are really dedicated to serving others.

And in fact, there's been a longitudinal study by independent researchers of the 4-H program nationwide, and 4-H members are four times as likely to contribute to their communities and serve their communities.

They're twice as likely to have a goal, to be a good leader in their lifetime - Well said.

And I wanna bring out something about designing your own 4-H program.

When we had Abby Burrows, Mary Burrows' daughter on with her rabbit called something, I don't remember what it was, cute rabbit.

We had a caller from Dylan, called in, and volunteer to start a 4-H program for news broadcasting, radio broadcasting.

- Yes.

- Because she owned several radio stations in the state, and she volunteered to start a 4-H program there.

So reaching out.

Yeah, there's a lot of opportunities there.

- Right, well as I look across it, the people running this program.

There was a program that ran for many years called Vid Kids, and it was out of Meagher County, and it was a volunteer who had that enthusiasm and they produced several promotional videos for 4-H so.

- I like it.

The color from Valentine is clarifying that the flea beetles were on turnips.

What do they need to do?

I'll let you two decide then I'll throw my two cents in.

- Marni Rolston published an Ag Alert on flea beetle management in kitchen gardens and flower beds.

You may look that up if you wanna know her two cents on that.

She's very knowledgeable when it comes to advising folks on how to manage insects in ag sectors as well as in garden systems.

- Okay.

- So what I would say is they really do like the brassica, so cabbage and their relatives.

And so in turnips what some people have found success with are trap crops.

And so whether that's radishes or eggplant, planting them in the vicinity a little bit earlier than your desired plants, and then controlling them on those specific plants as they go to them, 'cause they'll choose the larger plants in a landscape, and you can use that as a way to control them with whatever treatment method you want.

- Okay, and I have a method.

There used to be a product called diazinon.

It was an insecticide who never was taken off the market.

It was never relabeled because of the cost of relabeling, some products for ornamentals and vegetables, if you have some diazinon left, if you put a teaspoon and a gallon of water and drench that row, when you plant turnips or radishes, you will not have flea beetle on.

It really works, but it's impossible to find.

So I just thought I'd mention it, still does work and it's still legal.

- There's always ornamental cabbages, right?

- There you go.

(panel laughs) - I actually tried a imidacloprid, but they fattened up on that insecticide, and I was late putting it on.

From Billings, this is from me, and I can't answer this, but Paul will do it next week.

We need to find out more about how to sign up for the newsletter.

She is struggling with finding a link.

I promise you, next week, we'll have the information on how to sign up for the newsletter, and we'll have it on screen for you.

Question here for Jane.

We've still got a little time left.

This came from Kalispell, and this person says probably correct.

Their perception is that 4-H is focused on agriculture, but it's broader than that.

And I think you've mentioned that, but it is not only agriculture, - It is not only agriculture.

I would love to dispel that myth.

I visited with people when I was traveling who said, oh, I wasn't in 4-H 'cause I didn't live on a farm.

And like, oh my goodness, I would bet half of our membership does not live on a farmer ranch.

There are so many ways to be involved.

I was thinking about that career aspect of 4-H, and we had a group who did a bioscience program that was hosted here on the MSU campus.

It was part of grant funded education and for five years, students from across the state came through the 4-H program to learn neuroscience and metabolomics, and all these different other infectious disease.

And it was a phenomenal program.

And that did not distinguish that you had to raise an animal, raise a crop.

Ag is a big part of our state, and it's a big opportunity to expose youth to what it takes to raise livestock, to raise crops, where food comes from.

And sometimes there are partnerships where kids who live in town are housing an animal with someone who lives out of town.

So there are so many ways to do 4-H.

I just hope that that would not deter someone from enrolling their youth.

The leadership aspect of the program is phenomenal.

- Okay, if you're interested, get a hold of your local county extension office, and then they'll provide you with all the information.

- Yeah.

- We're getting a long time, but I do want this question come up because a Bozeman caller says, he's been growing tomatoes for years, but this year they have been extremely small but very tasty.

He's wondering why they are so small, and he's added 10, 10, 10, which is a fertilizer combination and ammonia sulfate, but there's no difference in size.

Any idea why they're small this year?

- I guess I'm looking at Abi, like why they're small?

I'm thinking maybe it's been kind of hot for like days and weeks on end, maybe that plays a role in that.

- And so I've read that the ideal development time for tomatoes is between 70 to 90 degrees Fahrenheit for the fruit development.

And so if those temperatures are much higher, which in July, we had those high 90s days and even in the low 100s and many places that could interrupt the development and slow it down.

- You know, my potatoes actually, and I haven't dug them all because I'm lazy, but bottom line is they weren't that small.

Folks, we're down to the end of another program.

First of all, I want to thank you Uta, Jane, especially Jane for coming in special guest.

I've learned a lot about 4-H. Erika, you'll be back.

I'm sure Abi as always, the phone answers.

Next week, we have a special guest, Seth Bodnar from the University of Montana.

Actually, he's the president of the University of Montana, will be our guest, and he'll talk about how the University of Montana is involved in agriculture.

So with that, join us next week.

You'll find an interesting.

Good night.

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